Is it unfair that Henry Armstrong is not considered by many as the greatest Native American boxer ever?

Again JON, I would First like to commend you for having the courage to say what many are either too Afraid (regarding Elvis) or too Ignorant (regarding many others) to say. And I'm with you on seeking the just due recognition of Henry Armstrong's true heritage.

Like one of the other posters said here, it's the media and the arrogance that has infested this country since the beginning of the so called "American History", is if it all begins in the 1600s and nothing before.

My interest is two fold. One, It's only The Right Thing To Do and it would be a start in the right direction if one of history's greatest athletes is recognized as a Native American, since it's Simply a FACT. My other interest is that my mother was more than half Native American. However, in this country, especially during those times--she was born in 1930-- if you were not white, you were considered black. She was fair skinned and there were times when she had to pass for white just to survive, not to live and eat but SURVIVE, as in Not Be Killed.

I would go as far as to say that Native American representation is more important than the many other types of representation people often squawk about and I'll give the reasons. Take president Obama, whose mother was white. No one refers to him as half-white, nor should they. The reason? What would it accomplish? Nothing. I'm sure you can understand my point here but for those who can't, it would take a lifetime to explain it. Read some books.

This is not to say that whites should not be proud of the president or that they have no right to lay claim to his heritage. The point here is that NO ONE ever made a big deal of any president being white because there has always been the unwritten rule and history long assumption that all presidents would be white. There are five other presidents with black heritage, Lincolin being the most famous of this bunch.

The reason I believe that Native American recognition is very important is exactly as you stated. They're virtually forgotten, as if they never existed. Imagine the sheer ARROGANCE of trying to wipe out an entire race of people.

Elvis is a perfect example of the Arrogance that infests this country. Have you EVER heard ANYTHING that relates to his Native American heritage? He's hailed as the rock n roll king, all-american, white.

This isn't the fault of the younger generation of whites today. Many of them also recognize the failures of those who wrote American history. However, it is time to see American history for the lies it really is.

The point is that I think it would be a total waste of time to "Split hairs" in trying to discect everyone's DNA and figure out how much European blood they have in them. The Europeans have never been mal-treated in this country or any other, in the way the Native Americans have.

I'll take it a step further. Blacks have been held in slavery, denied their heritage or any knowledge of their culture, language or history. However, today, they're Still Around. Life in the US isn't very easy for many blacks but people do KNOW who they are. I've spoken to many people in their 40s who know NOTHING about Native Americans. Over 80% of my friends who come from other countries, and most of them do, including my fiance, NEVER know ANYTHING about ANY people who came here before the Europeans. They believe that the Europeans were the first ones here and, therefore, are the true Americans. I'm NOT KIDDING.

I once wrote an article to RING Magazine about this very topic. Though they've printed some of my articles, they never printed this one. So I'll write it again, and again until they do give Henry Armstrong his True Recognition as The Greatest Native American Boxer and Athlete of All-Time.

Henry Armstrong is 50% Native American? That is a lot! He should definitely be recognized by the media as one of the greatest Native American athletes ever and not only that but also one of the most important Native American person in the history of the United States. Barack Obama and Tiger Woods get a lot of benefits for being half black, well Armstrong is half Native American so he deserves to also be reconized as a Native American.

The media is bias and will forever be that way! That is the problem!

It is very unfair. Henry Armstrong should be recognized as more of a Native American since he has a higher DNA genes on it. He is 50 percent Native American and only 1/4 black and 1/4 white.

You can say I guess that Armstrong is the best Native American boxer ever, the second best African American boxer ever behind Sugar Ray Robinson, and the best white boxer behind nobody. lol

I have been around for a long time and I can tell you that not many even thought Henry Armstrong is 50% Native American, 25% African American, and 25% white. In this country, even a little blood of African American will make you an automatic African American like W.E.B Du Bois, Barack Obama, or Tiger Woods.

Henry Armstrong has a higher gene pool of being a Native American by facts and DNA, so the Native Americans should and must be very proud of him!

Interesting observation.

"Native Americans are the most under-represented group in the history of this country." Right then and there. The same thing goes for American History textbooks in middle schools and high schools, they all have their own chapter on the Holocaust, Pearl Harbor, Civil Rights, Revolutionary War....not to say that those were notable and significant events, but you rarely read/hear about the Trail of Tears and how 'un-modern' Native American Reservations are that people still use the word "Indians" to describe the indigenous people of this continent.

As for Henry Armstrong, I think another reason why he appears not to be mentioned is that if boxing fans don't even know about him (since he's from the 1930's+) then how are they going to know that he was half-Iroquois? Don't get me wrong, his boxing career looks superb, but you shouldn't expect the boxing world to care about his ethnicity to that degree.

Hi Jon,

I do see your point of the Native American's not being recognized for much. History of all races are a good thing for any country. I think it is slowly fading away though. Some will hold to their roots as long as they can but I think anybody PURE of anything will be a rare thing hundreds or maybe thousands of years from now.

I also read all the other things like what Galactus said and see the points you guys have too.

So I think all of these things of being recognized for your race will be a moot point way in the future. I think (Greatly HOPE) people will finally look past any race issue and see people for who they really are, what they stand for, and what they have done. The world would be more PURE when race is finally over and everyone is considered a mutt. There will still be some that argue I'm so much of a percentage of something, but they will be the ignorant few that will try to hold on rather than move forward.

I may upset people with what I've just said, but that is how I feel. I've studied religions of the world and covered/studied things concerning racism. Even after papers I've written about these subjects, it's too complex to understand why some people are so ignorant to see past the color of others skin, where people are from, or how they speak. I think we are living in an exciting time...but sometimes I wish I would have been born hundreds or thousands of years later....where I believe/hope the world as a whole will be more united.

That being said I believe most fighters, including Henry Armstrong, fight for pride of their talent and knowledge of the game. To prove they are elite and want to be the best ever...including Bernard Hopkins with some of his ignorant quotes...not worth mentioning, that he has said in the past. They all mainly aim to be known as one of "The Greats". They hold that above being a great for their race.

I've observed peoples actions and reactions since I was a Kid and notice people tend to shy away, or act very differently, even be scared when confronted by another race. I have seen this happen to me...even to this day. I am amazed how people are...I think it was how they were raised and lack of knowledge of other races...that they just tend to fear 1st. Then they find out how nice I really am and are glad they met me.

Not being white...and observing/studying people's actions since I was a kid. For the record, I am 50% Filipino and 50% "AMERICAN INDIAN"...there is a difference...I never thought of it as a kid until I heard my Dad offended by someone saying you are "Native American" right? Then he explained and I never refer myself to that anymore and kind of feel ignorant thinking of the past lol. My Dad explained it to people that called him that...like this..."Where were you born?" Example...Detroit...my Dad then said..."Then you are "NATIVE AMERICAN""....I am an American Indian...yes...

And for the record...Since I stated things that will upset people...I always check "other" on surveys rather than Asian or Native American...if American Indian was a choice all the time...I might have to lean towards that...but I think I'll always choose other...I hate how they Clump all groups in a certain basket. Other is the way to go...someone build a time machine (or a tool that can banish racism) so we can go into the future and get rid of this racism crap? please? :)

@ Jon - you said @whatwasithing lol...I assume you meant me. thanks. :)

Awesome man! I didnt know Henry Armstrong is 50% Native American and only 25% African American and 25% White. I thought he is just black because that's what the media keep saying! That is amazing! Thanks for the new info!

You have been doing some amazing research. Native Americans are the most ignored ethnic group. They have been relegated to a status as if they are fantastical or fictional. There are actually alot of people with native american blood, especially when you factor in the latin americas. One has to assume they don't get their due respect.

Thanks for the lesson though. I always assumed Armstrong was black.

Lol I try to use lists to reduce the size of my posts, but this question is itching for a full blown response

As a history major Jon, I am sure you know that the economic and social structure in this country, hemisphere for that matter, was based off the exploitation of native land and a never ending source of free labor via the transatlantic slave trade. Within that environment cultural systems were established not for the sake of humanity, but to promulgate an evil way of life. One of these tactics was to define "colored" people by the one drop rule. Hence, no matter how much or how little blood one had from the "dark continent" they were considered as such. This is why black folks can look from coal to cream in skin tone and yet be called an ethnicity. The facts are black is not an ethnicity nor is it a true measure of hue, it is solely an identity used by those of a shared past to help bring clarity to a deleted history. Add the fact that native tribes routinely owned african slaves and many tribes have never historically willingly recognized those with partial african ancestry it is easy to see why Henry Armstrong is celebrated as a black man not a native. Even in my own ancestral background this disdain for anything african has shaped my history. For it was a Cherokee woman that chose the comforts of conformity over the unconditional love her child. This wretch then proceeded to sell that child of Cherokee, White and African descent into one of the worst crimes in the history of modern man while she drifted back to her tribe in the Carolina's.

So Jon, I value your intent to recognize those of native decent, but please let those that you champion be fully embraced by their tribe not those who are native only because of success.

*A good book written several years ago by Eugene Robinson, titled Coal to Cream, would shed light onto this subject matter.

@Jon- A great probing question deserves thoughtful answers. I only wish we could lift this veil that seperates sport, politics & culture on this site for in life they are intertwined.

I didn't know Henry Armstrong was half Native. I always thought he was black. But I didn't know that about Johnny Depp, Elvis, etc. either. I think it's because Native/Aboriginal Americans tend to be assimilated, plus many of them are only half or less Native. Because there's so few of them, and they have high rates of interracial marriage, their culture gets diluted. OK, I'm getting into controversy when I mention "interracial marriage" here, but you see what I mean.

I think it's also because all the people you mentioned have English sounding names. When I first heard of BJ Penn, I immediately thought he was white or black, but when I heard Lyoto Machida I thought he was Asian, even though both are half Asian. But Natives rarely have distinct sounding names.

Blacks have a history of being segregated, but also populated enough to protest unlike Natives. Therefore their racial identity is more emphasized. Asians and Hispanics are more emphasized because many of them are 1st generation, plus they have ethnic homelands, so their identity is also strong at the moment. But one day the average Asian American might only be 25% or less Asian and they might be assimilated as white or black Americans too.