What does it take to be a good horseman and trainer?

Ahh Smokie, I like reading your answers. I believe you are a good and kind horseman from what I read ;-)

Your comment about profound life changing experiences interests me. I think I have always been a kind handler and the big TB's always responded very well to the "little person". One of my twins had a brain haemorrhage when she was 3 months old and is now profoundly disabled. For a few days they did not know if she would live and in the next month we saw many people in hospital who did not take their babies home. It is an experience that has changed my husband and I, we now have a tolerance we never knew could exist. That was 6 years ago, every day we have is a gift, that nearly got taken away. So I believe your theory ;-)

So.. on with my theory... It is not enough to see someone do something and just copy it, you need to know the reason/theory behind the method. Every horse is different and not every method works for every horse. I often come across a horse and remember something that one of my older mentors has said. I often ask "why" to people, what is someone's reasoning for doing something or doing it different to me. Often they will have a valid point or theory that I have not thought of.

It pays to listen to all sorts of people, farriers, vets, older experienced people etc. Listen to their stories, you might come across something in future and try one of their methods. It costs nothing to listen and learn, even if the lesson is NOT to do what they did ;-) My great grandfather was a cattleman from the high country here in Australia, I still love to listen to my grandmother talk about her experiences.

Horses don't have our human emotions as such, they will not sit in the paddock and think about being naughty. They respond to you each day according to how you treat them and how they feel. Many people give their horse emotions and wrongly think they are doing something to get back at them. LOL

I think people try to over compensate, to make their horse like them better. Giving a horse treats does not make them like you more, it makes them think you are a walking pez dispenser (as I heard someone else say and loved it. LOL). Horses are not trained the same way dogs are. The best treat for horses is a nice rub. Horses respond to the herd leader, that is "us". They need to respect you or they will walk all over you.

If you fuss and baby them or show nervousness, they will pick up on this immediately. You gain his respect by being calm, consistent, firm and fair (this does not mean hitting). I am very matter of fact with my horses, I talk to them and natter away all the time, but I don't respond or react to silly things that they do. I just go about my business. I believe in avoidance, don't let a horse exhibit bad behaviour and THEN make a big fuss about it.

I was riding track work one morning and made a comment to another jockey, about how good someone was to stay on a particular horse who was playing up. That fellow was a great jockey and he said "it does not take a good rider to SIT on a horse who is playing up, it takes a good rider to not let them play up in the first place". I practice that in everything I do in life.

To me attitude makes all the difference, positive attitude will help you get further and achieve things quicker. I don't see people as being BETTER than me, I see them as more experienced or experienced in a different area to me. I then see them as a big training tool and pick their brain until they are sick of me ;-)

I have been with horses all my life, but I don't consider myself an expert on anything. Horse people learn all the time and EVERY new horse I come into contact with teaches me something. You only know as much, as your horses have taught you. They are marvellous creatures and they respond differently to different people. If you put on a fake front they see through you pretty quickly. If you be yourself, chances are horse's will enjoy your company, give you confidence and teach you heaps.

I believe a basic key to training and learning is, to work on something and be doing it really well before you move to the next thing. Too many people rush themselves or skip the ground work that is truly training a horse. A bit of extra time and hard work at this end, is what makes it all worth while at the other end, despite how boring some people think that is ;-) Half the fun is the journey!

Anyone can take a good, well educated horse and turn it into a disrespectful and difficult animal, if they don't handle them correctly. In my opinion it is a continuing process, for the entire time you work with the horse. Any behaviour or training faults will ultimately lie with "us" the human. We have the responsibility to make them a good horse in the first place ;-)

Good question Smokie!

Here are the things I think make a good horseman/trainer:

Most importantly, the horses are healthy, sane and sound. They are worked at a level appropriate for their abilities and are matched with appropriate riders. Horses and riders are successful in their discipline and have clear cut goals for future learning. All creatures in the barn, human and equine, are treated with respect. Safety is treated seriously and dangerous situations are avoided. Foreign opinions are treated with respect and new learning opportunities are implemented when appropriate. Ethical behavior is more important than results.

These some of the qualities I see in the equine professionals I look up to and respect. I have no use whatsoever for people who abuse their animals, disrespect their students, put performance over safety and refuse to believe that there is anything to be learned from others.

You have gotten a lot of good advice, you can pick pieces of each response and build a program that works for you. I particularily like what Ghost said. I'll add my two cents worth. Get out of the arena, and work in a pasture if you can. Place your horse into a lope, and the second he begins to speed up or just generally not be collected, stop, back a few steps, roll over his hocks, and canter off again. I sometimes use a 180 roll, and take the opposite lead, or do a 360 and practice the same lead again. This several benefits: it stops the forward steam that your horse seems to be gathering (which is why I don't like circles or run him till he is tired), collects him and rocks him back onto his hocks, AND keeps him on his toes. Also, you are not holding onto his mouth, except for as long as it takes to perform the manuever, then throw the reins to him again. You are teaching the horse to hold his speed and frame on his own which is necessary for WP. I dont' get to ride as regularily as I should, either, but a few of these roll backs, and I can feel my paint gelding rock back beautifully. If you are not in a pasture, you can do this in circles with in the arena, on the rail, or even out on a trail. Some people like to let their horses relax on the trail though.

Trust yourself

Learn to forgive your faults, do not beat yourself up over mistakes, learn from them and then move on

It does not matter if your a man or woman, both can be great horse trainers, riders and teachers...

You have to be able to read your horse, don't second guess them, watch their movements, the temperament, and most of all how they respond to you.

A gentle hand will get it done best, harsh training methods do not go down well with me, it is the gentle, kind hand, soft touch as I call it, and you will get better results than brow beating the horse to death...

Take criticism well and learn from it.....don't get upset if another experienced rider offers tips to help you, apply them if you think the source is good, if not, then listen and decide on your own.

Good luck

Amen!

Wonderful, I enjoyed reading this!

I quote you, "Learn to forgive yourself, your horse, and others for their imperfections."

This is one of the best things I have learned from horses. Almost everything I have learned with horses I can apply to the rest of my life. Its funny actually because I was just explaining learning to forgive to someone the other day. You just made my day in a weird way.

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I guess I'd say a "Horseman" probably has slightly different definition for each of us, but to me, it's a person who realizes the best way to work with a horse is on the horse's level, understanding and constantly learning about horses and how they perceive the world around them, who don't interact with horses because it's cool or because it makes them rich or to fulfill an ego but because they get soul-level reward within themselves for being successful with their equine partners. The best horsemen and women I've ever read about, watched, talked to, etc have said they are not done learning and they don't consider themselves horsemen just yet. When you stop learning and think you know it all, you're ego is too big to truly be a 'horseman".

I think this concept is seemingly simple yet very complex for humans to understand. We humans, being at the top of the food chain, do not experience 'life or death' situations nearly as much as other species on the earth. I have never been in a situation where I've been in danger for my life- so the mind-set that encountering death so closely affords is not something I can yet get a grasp on, but I can appreciate and try hard to understand why it helps a human to understand a horse's mental processes so much.

I feel that working with horses is much like working with people. People who are good with horses understand the horse's perception of our actions - trying to paraphrase what you've elaborated on above. The better a human understands how the horse perceives and internalizes what the human actions mean, the better a 'horseman' or 'horsewoman' one is. Likewise, the better people are able to understand each other, and what drives the other person, the better able we are to cause each other to work together as a harmonious team to reach a common goal.

I disagree with a strong heart with Gabbie. I don't think that it's wrong to write paragraphs about it. Look how much help has been gained for people who are trying to work better with their horses by books and DVDs as it is...I am living proof that sharing ideas, concepts, thoughts and processes improves one's interaction with their horse and I would further say it helps improve how one works with other humans as well.

The statement ""Learn to forgive yourself, your horse, and others for their imperfections." Packs quite a whallop. many people think they do this when in fact they don't. Humans are naturally very judgemental and quite often we think we're better than another because of a perception in our own minds.

For me, what's helped most is learning that the horse does not 'know better' - a horse doesn't paw the ground (for example) to try to piss me off, they do it for a reason - if I can figure out that reason, I can stop the behavior.

What I've taken away from reading Buck's books a couple of times, and very strongly, is something that I don't think many people realize - that the problems they encounter with their horses are usually based in a problem belonging to the human that also prohibits them from success in other parts of their life. My faults revolve around my perfectionist, detailed, impatient 'get it done now and right' personality. I desire quick results, I can't make decisions without knowing all of the potential outcomes and there has to be a certain result I can envision that I KNOW is the right thing - step one comes after step 2, etc. This need to feed my personality and personal drivers causes a big hindrance to my success - and it's played a big factor in my recent lack of confidence with my horses. When I go to work with them, I start out cold not knowing whether I'm doing the right thing or doing things the right way - am I asking properly? Am I providing too little or too much time for the correct response, am I expecting too much - and I am this way because I think this horse stuff should be text book - you do this, that's the result. It's hard for me to accept that it isn't textbook.

when I was working on the Parelli program, there was a support group for people like me. A psychologist said the phrase "My horse is my mirror" and I didn't know what that meant at the time but it's stuck in my mind - How my horse responds to me is a direct result of how able I am to:

- Recognize the horse for what it is and fully understand it's perception of the world around it (which includes my attempts at interacting with the horse)

- Recognize try and reward it in proper time

- Recognize when I've asked too much and know to back up and start again using smaller or different steps.

- Realize that the horse is honest - what it's telling me is clear, they don't lie, they don't fake something to get something else. If they balk, they are fearful-not stupid or stubborn, If they spook, they aren't doing it to get back at me, they're genuinely afraid of something and I haven't done my homework to teach them they need not be afraid.

- Temper has no place with horses (I am in fear of never learning this) - when you lose your temper you may as well quit now.

- Set goals that are measurable and achieveable so you know whether you're on the right track and be willing to re-set the goals as needed.