Your opinion on this please! From the one who thinks Bayliner is the anti-christ of boating. lol?

I think it was jtexas that pointed out something along the lines of "while you only get what you pay for, sometimes you get a lot less."

We don't have them in Oz, sounds like a good thing. The cheaper end of the market here still have solid dependable hulls, just less fripperies and fluff. I am easily pleased by a well made and powered boat without the fancy crap, but many friends seem to find the glitter finish, carpet, fridge/freezer, hot water, shower and surround sound entertainment centre on a twenty footer absolutely needed as they get older - and only use the things every second month in case they get rained on or something....

Cheers.

There were cheaper built boats, but they didn't have a very long run and weren't around long enough to establish a history of being worse.

I would say the hulls alone were pretty flimsy on the Bayliners, a floating pop bottle on end could punch a hole though the hull at about 30 knots.

They were good looking boats though with nice lines, pretty hard to work on most of the inboard engines on the bottom half when needed, sometimes easier to pull the engine.

When the hull got a crack in it from beating on the waves, the foam liner would wick full of water and make the boats weight a few extra pounds, sometimes up to a ton. Boats didn't move very well after that and really hard to get drained back out without drilling dozens of holes and then having to glass them back over after having the boat sit a season to drain was a pain.

Is there a question in here Cap? I have to agree, you get what you pay for in anything, not just in boating. My own experience with Bayliner has given me the impression that they stink. I have done surveys that show poor construction and poor attention to detail. You could see where the interior framing was by the way the hull bent on the outside. Just this past fall, they blocked up a Bayliner in th marina where I work and the blocking went right into a void in the hull on the port stern corner. The hulls flex underway causing cracking. I would never buy one. However people get what they can afford and many beginners do not know what to look for.

Now how about that lunch?

Used to have a saying on my lake, once a Bayliner owner, always a Bayliner owner. Why? Because only a Bayliner dealer would take your old one in trade. I've ridden and driven a few 19 - 20 Bayliners, Regals, Wellcrafts, Sea Rays and Four Winns among others. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Enough said.

After hurricane Alicia struck the Texas coast in August 1983, I was tasked with surveying boats in the Houston area for our underwriter clients. I surveyed 70 yachts by December. Bayliners had the worst damage compared to comparable boats of other makers.

John, I am in full agreement with you about Bayliner. I think I first realized how really terrible they really are one day when I leaned against the hull of one on a trailer, and the side pushed in about 3 inches. "holy jeebuz" I thought, "this boat is broken"! Upon a closer inspection, the only thing I found wrong was not nearly enough material and support for a boat of that size.

- My son calls them the Skoda of the lakes.

- Why where Bayliners called Bayliners? 'Cause s##t-box was already taken.

Nuff said.

Bayliners, were built in my area for about 5 yrs. The plant closed down 3 yrs. ago. It is understood around here, that they are the bottom rung of the trade.

It is not just the teaching of St.Augustine that the Church distorted for its own convenience, but even the very teaching of Jesus itself. Jesus was very much against the clergy. (Quotation can be given from the Bible). But surprisingly the church exists on what Jesus had opposed to! There is an Anti Christ as well as a Christ in each of us. But it seems that the church is happy to develop the anti-Christs in its sheeps for the reasons that will benefit them.

I had one of the first run-abouts and used it around the harbor for a few years. Then I bought the best boat ever used any where. A Grady White. The bay liner that I had is still being used.

While I'm not a fan of Bayliner boats either, I don't run down the owners of Bayliners. I have family members around the country that do in fact own Bayliners and Trophy series boats. These were the boats that they chose for themselves. I personally would not buy one, but have had opportunities to drive them on the waters in lakes, bays and both oceans of our country.

The biggest complaint from every owner is the "Harsh" ride. This is due to the flatter "Dead rise" of the hull design. The pounding that the hull endures, is awful. My Sea Ray has a 19 degree dead rise as compared to a friends' Bayliner's 17 degree dead rise. That 2 degree difference makes for a whole different ride and the way that the hull cuts through the water. However, that same boat will plane faster and get better fuel usage than my boat, so that's the trade-off. The "Trophy" series of ocean fishing boats ALL have 21 degree dead rises to cut through the waves and deliver a smooth ride. I have personally driven my cousins' Trophy and gone tuna fishing 38 miles out in the Pacific and found it to be as good and comfortable as my Sea Ray. Speed wise both boats are the same, and fuel usage slightly higher on my boat due to the higher weight.

My Sea Ray and my relatives Bayliner/Trophy boats are all owned by Brunswick Corp. As are the engine/outdrives are too. Being owned by a "Bowling Ball" company isn't a bad thing. They also own Hatteras boats and Cummins Diesel. So are the owners of a Hatteras bad too? I see all boats as a personal/financial statement of ones' being. I recently purchased a "Marquis Yacht" even though the parent company (Genmar) filed for bankruptcy. It's not the boat builders that went bankrupt, it's Genmar that went bankrupt. The boat builders are just left wondering what to do. They want to build boats as orders come in, but Genmar tells them they won't pay for the materials to make that boat. I have relatives in Wisconsin that were affected by the Carver / Marquis shut down.

But, I support the line and knew someone was going to buy the company in court.

I agree to the fact that Bayliner uses lower grades of materials for just about everything other than the hull. But these boats are built to Coast Guard Safety requirements. The hulls are designed and constructed like most other hulls from any builder. However, back in the 70's and 80's this wasn't the case. They did have issues with the way the hulls were created, and yes, there were splits, cracking and de-lamination. But even some of the best boat companies have this today! As an example, Malibu ski/wake board boats have been sued for this very issue recently. My best friend's boat actually had the ENTIRE keel to waterline come OFF the boat. That's on a $85k tournament boat. So it can happen to the best of company's.

As far as a first time Bayliner buyer never buying another, your right. Most people won't buy another, but it's usually not because of poor quality, it's now that they have been exposed to better and nicer boats and they have usually more expendable income for the "Lifestyle", and have elected to stay with it. Also, the boating needs change as the family changes too. In Bayliners' defense, they have a limited product lineup. In many cases, the family moves up to a boat that will serve the purpose better.

You as a sailor should know that needs change as a family evolves. I understand that you've sailed all around the world, and your son also. I commend you on that front. My sailing experience is limited to sailing to Hawaii from San Francisco. But, I have cruised to Mexico many times in my Express Cruiser, and will be cruising to Alaska this summer in the MY (btw, thanks for the info about Canada). In many cases, the wife/mother of the boating family has the final say in the purchase of any boat. Mine NEEDED a bathroom, hot water and the ability to drive the boat without me being aboard. She picked the 26', I didn't. I wanted a larger boat, but since it had to be towable, she had the final say.

Being a United States Power Squadron Officer, we have many members with Bayliners too. Some dating back to the troubled years of Bayliner. But, everybody who owns one, is happy with them. I'm talking about 30' and up. We have annual events with our boats and the Bayliner boats just keep on coming. I also carry a 100 ton Maritime License.

Happy sails to you.