Electric collars - I like to zap my dog?

Well...here is either a great example of someone that has NO idea what she is doing, or, she is doing something else that her dog needs and since none of us know her and her dog, we are not able to tell.

Here is MY take on it, and since like I said, I am NOT there and know nothing about either of them, I cannot tell you for sure!!

She recalls as she stims, not sure if its a nick or constant, I prefer constant personally because the dog "gets" it better that way, but, I digress, the dog recalls and does a sit in front of her, maybe a little crooked...she nicks and the dog gets in the right position.

Another scenario would be the dog will need to go to the heel position from the front and she is using the E collar for that...I know, I am reaching....

Maybe the dog needs to be reminded that sitting and staying is NOT an option because she screwed up when teaching the recall and never demanded precision from her animal....

Once again, I don't profess to know what she is doing, I am just coming up with different ideas.

Hope I helped!

I challenge you do take your own advice, emma. I did and I know there isn't a problem with e-collars. I don't think you have. I'm not a big fan of the no-bark collars but there is a time and place for them. I suppose what you describe as an e-collar that is a no-bark collar and also an electric fence collar could exist but I haven't heard of it, not that I've looked into either of those to really know. Why would the dogs need a chance to show they are able to stay off the lawn without the collars? They either stay off the lawn or they don't, the collar is not part of that equation. BTW, I will shoot to kill anyone I catch stealing my dogs. You best hope I'm not your neighbor if that's your plan. And no judge or jury around me will convict me for it.

I have not been trained on the proper use of these for myself so have never used one. I am one of those who will start with the least needed and work my way up. And I have never had to use the electric collar. However, my son had a Boxer that the trainer recommended this collar for and he used it.

I did watch, which by no means makes me an expert. My son worked a very long time with the trainer to be able to use the collar correctly. It is not meant to hurt the dog. It is meant to train, correct and control a dog that might otherwise have issues. Or, it is also used with very specific trainers that have some tough commands to teach. Some of us do not train dogs that would require this collar.

I am not sure what this woman is doing and I think Greek is trying to be kind. :D

As I said before, I am not accustomed to the collar, but I would think it is very confusing to "zap" the dog and then immediately give a treat. When I watched John and he did explain what he was doing, he gave a prolonged "zap" when the dog needed a correction. It took him exactly one month to have this dog obeying every single command and the dog respected him. I do not recall treats being involved with the zap.

I can see what Greek is saying may be happening, but I still am as confused as you. Watch and see if the dog shifts position or watch the command she gives, along with hand signals. If she is just giving a command and the dog is obeying, seems to me it is like you said and she likes to "zap her dog." Maybe it gives her a sense of control.

An electronic collar is a power tool, and when used sparingly and only for the right purpose, it can be extremely effective. It can also save a dog's life.

Knowledge is power - once you see someone who truly knows how to use this, you may change your mind. IF all anyone ever did was to zap their dogs on the mid to highest setting (which sadly is common), of course anyone would be against them. When used incorrectly, it is a form of abuse. Actually, the improper use, or worse yet, inneffective use of any corrective device can also cause harm. If this woman is activating the device every time she walks the dog, I would be suspicious about her skill level - but it is possible she only carries it as a warning.

If a dog is very agile and willing to play keepaway, the collar can be a very effective and kind way of teaching them what they should be doing- and when used fairly, on the lowest setting necessary to get their attention, it can be a source of slight discomfort but not painful.

Timing is essential, as is the decision to send or not send the impulse. The same can be said of saying NO sharply in a deep voice, which works in some dogs, and not in others. The best thing you could do is to seek out a trainer who truly knows how to use this device carefully and correctly - the process and the results can be amazing, when a smart, tough dog gets the message at just the right instant - and the message lasts a lifetime. And that can save a life.

I do wish, however, that they were only available to certain trainers with the right training themselves - this nothing that should ever be used by an amateur.

Training my GSD's I have never had to use an electric collar.What is the purpose of zapping the dog after the dog already did the command?? My dogs did the come,front sit, stay, around, heal,out of sight and stay,down,and whatever other positions I wanted them in and never with a training tool other than my voice and hand gesture..I could put my dogs in a park with all kinds of distractions and walk 200 ft away and those dogs will stay and do what I tell them..Maybe there are some dogs that need it but I'm still wondering if the dog did what he was suppose to do than why zap after the fact??

Thats backward to me. I use one, and talk with many people who use them. There is some pairing of the stim with the command in the beginning, but if you're getting the behavior, it's counter productive to correct a behavior that's what you want.

Here's what I know works, and have seen done and read support for in literature:

You teach everything with a lead and a prong or slip to begin with. All basic obedience is established here. When the behaviors is 100%, then you add a collar. They wear it around the house for and on the lead for a while (a couple hours at a time, just getting used to the feel- most dogs don't seem to even notice). Then you pair the lead corrections you've been giving with low-level, but enough to feel, stim. You go back to square one, and establish obedience command with the leash and stim. Then you take away the leash.

Obviously, for all the people who keep posting on here who think this is a quick fix, they're wrong. This process takes a long time, but done correctly, creates strong behaviors.

Good luck with Quattro!

The only thing I can think of, that hasn't already been mentioned....is that some E-collars DO come with a "vibrate" feature at the lowest setting, below the stim levels.

I know some hunters use the vibrate feature with dogs who have already been trained, but occasionally need a "reminder" in the field. Usually, soft-to-medium temperament dogs who were trained with a good deal of E-collar work will respond just fine to the vibration in most cases. Reduces the need to nick a soft dog for minor transgressions, keeps the dog's enthusiasm high, etc.

I suppose in the case of pet obedience training, you COULD condition the dog to associate the "vibrate" with a reward, like a clicker? Maybe that's what she's doing, working on conditioning still.....so eventually she can "vibrate" the dog at a distance to let him know when he's done right?

Just a wild guess. If it were me, I'd figure out a way to politely ask her, in a manner that didn't come across like I was being critical, LOL. If she knows what she's doing & you seem genuinely interested, she may be happy to explain it to you. And if she's clueless, you can just smile, nod, and come back here to Y!A and tell us how screwy she was! :D

I've started doing a little bit of e-collar work with one of my dogs, for better recall in the field; I'd like to hunt with her this fall. I'm learning from a pro hunting dog trainer; I'm starting slow, making sure I use it in controlled situations so that I can get my timing down pat. I'm only going to use it to cement her recall, so I can keep her in range when we're hunting birds. So far, so good. :)

ADD: That'll teach me to get up & get a drink in the middle of typing- Dutch beat me to it. Well at least now I know I wasn't too far off base, if he thought the same thing!! :)

There is no way for me to be certain the lady had a clue what she was doing, but I have heard of using a low stimulus as a reward marker instead of a punishment marker. If you "load" it properly with treats/rewards there is no problem with that as long as the dog understands.

Also, how do you know she was shocking the dog? Are you sure she wasn't using a vibration stimulus? All the collars I use have a "page" option on them, and if I wanted to I could most certainly "load" the vibration stim with treats and use it exactly the same way a person would use a clicker with my dogs. I just choose to use it as a warning/attention getter instead.

For a hard dog, a mild stim or vibration is very easy to load as reward stimuli. For my soft dogs, that's not really as likely to work. It's certainly not wrong if the dog knows what it means.

Why the heck would you 'zap' the dog AFTER it has already come back?

That is like punishing it for coming and sitting?

I always thought electronic collars were used to help grab the dogs attention, not zap them for doing the right thing.

I hope as Dutch said she's a weirdo using the vibrate as a signal of "You did good"...if not she's a moron.

Again, as Greek said, if the dog is sitting crooked, I can understand the stim too (I do that myself)...but if she has to do it EVERY time, I doubt the dog understands why she's stimming him...which again makes her a moron.

I've helped train gundogs and indirect pressure as TJ said is common....it's usually used to correct a dog who's blown a command...in laymen's terms let's say I command a gundog to veer right but he continues to go left. I may yell "SIT" or "DOWN" at a distance, thus controlling the situation (aka not having the dog run rampant), and then nick him, and issue the command to veer right again.

If I were to command him to veer right, but he kept veering left, then nick him and repeat the command, all that does is add confusion...hence why I stop him before correcting and reissuing the command. The only time I use this personally is on a dog who really doesn't like to send out. But I don't think this woman is using this anyway...BUT as the law of odds would go...most people are idiots, so overwhelming odds says she's using the collar incorrectly...I'd ask her and see...the worst that can happen = Her getting huffy...which is common enough when talking dog training.

Interesting. I'm going to ASSUME that the lady knows how to use the collar. In that case, this is the only possible thing I can imagine other than the scenario Greekman described. If the collar has a "vibrate" option (which some do)...perhaps she is using it for praise....or similar to that goofy clicker device. So, the dog comes in correctly with a "zap"...then gets the treat with the vibrate stimulation. This shows the dog he's done it correctly...and gives her the advantage of being able to praise her dog at a distance without yelling "good boy" at the top of her lungs. So, that's it, Bob...final answer...she's using the collar for correction AND praise. Imagine that! A Torture device used for praise! It CAN"T BE.

ADD: Oops! Sorry TJ...didn't notice you already came to that conclusion. Can I TD myself?