For those that think Dirk has no case for being the best, or think it's "laughable" read this?

Tony R: Are you still going to judhe his defense off what he was in 2002 or now? Right now he is the best in the NBA (for bigmen) at stripping the ball in the paint. He always gets around a combined 2.5+ stls/ blks, which is always good on defense and he plays his man good 1 on 1 and does a good job on face up players like Bargnani and Okur.

btw: his low TO% is defense in its self because if a team scores on half your turnovers, and he turns the ball over less than Kobe, Wade, LBJ by a half, then he is allowing half as much points of turnovers too.

@ Yiota: Read the rest. The MVPs were from "thumberman" NOT Nba.

@ Unbiased LA fan: NEVER STEPPED UP IN PLAYOFFS???

in that Nuggets series he was going through personal drama with his EX girlfriend possibly having his kid, and the whole police situation and he still came out like a beast

3 weeks ago

and owned in that series going for 34.4ppg, 11.6rpg and 4apg, 50%fg, 39%3pt, 92%ft. Those are monster numbers for a guy going through that. If you are going to take away from Dirk for that warrior performance you will have to do the same for any of Kobe's messups and no one wants to do that but they are still so quick to get on Dirk. Kobe had the rape things going on during the 2004 finals and he let Prince hold him to 34%fg, 17%3pt, 4TOs per game, and 20 points which was a much worse performance than Dirks finals or Dirks warrior series and still dirk has way more pressure with his father issue and that shows the mental toughness of Dirk. You can go discredit Kobe then for his mental toughness if you will for Dirk.

He is a top 10 playoff scorer alltime (25.3ppg) unlike Kobe.

Games where he dominated

*2006 game 5 vs Suns: 50 points with 22 points in the 4th quarter alone outscoring the entire suns team himself.

* Game 7 vs Spurs: 37 points and 15 rebs with the three point play to send it to overtime.

* He is undefeated in game 7s at an average of 28ppg and 15rpg.

* 2002 playoffs vs KG

33ppg, 15rpg, 77%3pt on ONE OF THE BEST DEFENDERS EVER IN KG!

Doesn't step up in the playoffs?

You cant say "ARE YOU SERIOUS?" you have to be kidding me with that acting like Kobe is out of his league.

What about Dirk's dad having serious surgery during the 2007 playoffs and Dirk still performed better than Kobe during Kobe's rape case and YOUR FATHER ABOUT TO DIE due to a life of smoking is worse than a rape case. Dirk had to call during halftime of every game in that series so it was serious. Kobe's finger isn't even broken dude lol, but that's ESPN constantly fooling people into thinking it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA028dlUVwQ

How about Dirk busting his ankle and hyper extending it in 2008 and he came back early to help his team make the playoffs because the warriors and nuggets were about to make it over Dallas and then he busted his azz on one foot in that series against the Hornets averaging 26.8ppg, 12rpg, 4apg with a bumbed ankle.

I hate when LA fans can ONLY use rings to BAIL them out of arguments because TEAMS win rings not PLAYERS. dirk took a team to the finals with no inside player (shaq/ duncan/ gasol) and no GREAT wing player (manu/ wade ect) in the tough west. Rings don't make a player better than anyone. If Dirk has Shaq to start his career Im sure he would win one too. He had to be both the inside and out player for the Mavs in 2006 for them to make the finals whereas Kobe has NO SUCCESS in the playoffs without that bigman to do the work inside. Dirk impacts a game more

If Kobe got drafted and stayed with the Hornets and never won anything, but Dirk ended up playing with Shaq and won 4 titles, you would want me to understand how great Kobe is even though he never won a ring. so you can't use a TEAM award to justify anything. Dirk never played with that complementary player (shaq/ duncan) just like Carter never did also. and Pierce and allen both never won a ring until they played with KG (inside counterpart) to compliment them.

You only say Kobe is a better leader because he won a title. He wasn't even the best player on his team for 3/4 rings so thats not even accurate. Leadership is more than just yelling and pounding your chest for ESPN to see it and reported to kids everywhere. Its also about giving your team confidence and Dirk provides that. When Diop use to play here and get discouraged about his skills, Dirk talked to him after games and gave Diop confidence and Diop produced. Dirk provides leadership too.

@ Unbiased LA fan: ok last, just look at this and tell me if you still think rings define greatness

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AlRMs...

Gasol is a top 5 PF in the NBA and provides that inside player Kobe needs. that was my point.

It's a TEAM award my friend.

Read the link I just put laker fan....

He is BOTH the bigman and guard.

Kobe needs a Gasol/ Shaq type player for post season success because he needs someone to post up, create double teams, rebound, block, and space the floor. Duncan needs a guard type player like Manu/ Parker because they can create off the dribble and make outside plays.

NOWITZKI DOES ALL THOSE THINGS PEOPLE. Which is why he was able to take a team to the finals in the west with no inside or out player because HE IS BOTH.

Finals teams

2009: Kobe/ Gasol

2008: KG/ Pierce/ Allen

2007: Duncan/ parker manu

2006: shaq. wade

2005: same as 07

Nowitzki in 2006 had ????? (terry and howard are role players, weren't even allstars that year) its all due to his IMPACT.

TEAMS constructed a certain way win rings buddy. It's no coincidence.

unbiased LA: LOL The spurs team that Dirk beat in 2006 was better than his team. Better defense and better record during the season, but Dirk was the best player in that series and thats why they won.

NOTE: Half the finals appearances Kobe has been in Kobe underperformed. 2004 vs pistons he averaged 20pts on 35%fg and 17%3pt and 4TOs per game. The Celtics series also wasn;t good and in the 1st of the three peats Kobe shot the same as in the pistons series, which was poor. He ONLY played great in 3/6 finals. Im sure if Dirk has a great inside player like he had to get there more times he wouldn't perform bad on 3/6. c'mon

Yeah and if Vince and or Dirk ever played with Shaq their could be a different result. If Kobe has drafted to Toronto and never won anything due to no teammates, he wouldn't have those rings. Clearly showing its a TEAM award and you need to be put in the right situation to win. Look at Pierce, allen and KG before they played with each other. They all won nothing. But to give each other help they won. and they were all better players during 2004. so that point you made isn't valid.

LMFAO @ Show time: wow what a great and insightful answer. Im comparing him because everyone thinks Kobe is way better than Dirk when he isn't. get out of here with that BS dude lol that was the silliest thing I heard all day.

@ LA fan

Dirk was guarded by Bowen in 2006 and they even had to take Bowen off him because Dirk was torching him in that series averaging 28ppg on the spurs. also in 2002 KG was guarding Dirk and Dirk destroyed him averaging 33ppg and 15rpg on 77%3pt shooting. even Kobe said that performance by Dirk was amazing doing that to arguably the best defensive PF ever.

I LOVE how you act like these are FACTS. and thats what ESPN does to kids these days. they brainwash them into only thinking about it in one way as if Kobe and LBj are the ONLY ones that can be considered the best. Stop acting like its a fact because obviously if someone can make a great case for someone else, thats the reason its always going to be an opinion. so this "please tell me you dont think" stuff really needs to stop.

I already said if he played with a great inside player he could be able to get there 2 years. don't you think if he took a team to the finals in 2006 that had no great inside or outside player, no allstars, not even a person that could command a double team for him. don't you think he would have made the finals with players who compliment his skills? c'mon

Yeah, espn needs to balance out their analysis though, but LOL yeah this was a good debate. I enjoy to debate basketball and I don't mind anyone disagreeing. I'm just going to bring as much facts as possible to let them know why I think the way I do. However I have to say you are one of the few LA fans, no few PEOPLE on here that can handle a mature debate without going crazy about it. when we were debating I kept looking out on the forum page to see if I saw a question saying "why does jamaican man?" or something of that nature because usually on here when i post a question saying Dirk is the best, that person goes and trolls the forum acting immature about it. I do think its ok for anyone to think Kobe is better than Dirk because i think the players that can have a case for being the best are those 2 along with LBJ and CP3/ Wade. I just don't think people should think Kobe is WAYbetter than Dirk because IMHO they are in the same league