Have people lost their way in martial arts today?

The biggest problem I see is the dynamic of those who want a short cut versus those who raise the bar entirely too high.

To me, MMA, and some other martial art activities like Krav Maga and women's self defense, attract people who want a short cut or a quick fix. They want to learn something quick, fast and now. Sure, you can actually do that, but the problem is that someone who has taken the time to lay a solid foundation is going to wipe the floor with you. MMA should be in my opinion, someone with mulitple black belts in complementary disciplines learning how to blend them together against someone else with similar qualifications. It has the potential to be the most advance martial arts application there is. Instead what I see, and I could be wrong, is half-*** trained people pumped up on weights and steroids, thrown in a cage against other half-*** people. If one of the two MMA fighters is not actually half-***, you end up with slaughter matches. I know martial arts are about fighting, but I should not have to see you grappling on top of a pool of someone's blood in order to feel like the match has a winner. Lots of times, if these matches were stopped at the point they would be in a TMA contest, you'd still see the same person win.

The opposite problem are people who want you to take 10 to 20 years to get a black belt, then even longer before you are allowed to teach anyone. I'm talking just a 1st degree black belt here. Come on! It should not take that long. It should not take 10 or 20 days or months, but it also should not take 10 or 20 years unless you are a student who rarely shows up to class. And yet, some of us are willing to invest that type of time----I know I have been. While I can understand the idea of only letting 4th degrees and above teach, for that would truly be ideal, realistically, there are not enough of those black belt martial artists to go around. Not only that, it is the first, second and third degrees who many times end up doing the grunt work of teaching beginners and intermediate students anyway. Why not let those folks get others up to 1st degree black belt, which is what is really happening anyway? Now the whole purple belts teaching phenomenon, that's where I say you crossing the line. Brown belts----iffy, for some brown belts are good teachers. We at times have made a cult around the black belt, made a god out of it, put more importance on it than they do in the countries that originated these arts. We have to find balance. How many organizations out let let people who can fight well but can't remember how to demonstrate or explain the curriculum slide on up the belt ranks to 1st degree, so we end up with a bunch of brawlers who could not teach an old lady how to walk across the mat. So you won 50 tournaments yet you can't tell me how and why to do Osoto Gari? You won the All Kick *** Karate Championships three years in a row yet you can't handle teaching a beginner how to do Taego 1 or Kibon 2? So you know how to do it, but you can't tell anyone else how to do it, right? But you can wear a black belt with pride, right? Yeah, ok.

The second biggest problem is our aversion to training housewives, husbands and children. Aren't we housewives, husbands and children? Aren't they the people who more than likely NEED martial arts the most? This is why the mcdojos are able to prey on these people. The mcdojos--and mckwoons and mcdojangs, love to take advantage of the most vulnerable. And gues what? We, as a whole, let them.

nwohioguy, this problem is not unique to martial arts. Rap music has the same problem. People talk about where "real hip hop" went. Well it went down the toilet because the public would rather see idiots rap than rappers who are poetic. Perhaps the public would rather watch and train in idiot martial arts than in traditional styles, because traditional martial arts emphasize beauty, peace, calmness AND aggression. How many of us here have students, and even ARE students, who would rather spar than get the moves right in your katas? Or, you'd rather be a kata competitor instead of working on your sparring, especially when you know damn well that your sparring needs work.

The biggest problem is US.

Lost Martial Arts

Wow! This is one of the best questions I've seen on this board. I will admit that there has been a decline in the spirituality and essence of martial arts. In many ways it has only become a "cash cow" that lines the pockets of opportunist and entrepreneurs. MMA competition has only made matters worse, in the aspect that it dilutes TMA and the discipline that comes with them. Although i don't think this is on purpose, but many people view MMA as "fighting/brawl" sport, that unlike TMA's is easier. You can just get to the point of "beaten the crap" out of your opponent, instead of spending years just learning one technique. I do agree that "martial arts" in all realism is about fighting and defeating your enemy. So i understand when people say "what's the point? I'm still learning how to fight and to protect myself either way. So why don't I learn what i see works?" This kind of mentality is not wrong, but to purist it really seems like a slap in the face.

Another thing to look at, is the day and age we live in. Society has taught many of us to be more simplistic and use things that make life convenient. We have no value or integrity because there is no need for such things. Honor, Courage, and Commitment has been replaced with Fast, Easy, and Simple. This applies in school, work, socially and in the dojo/gym. The end result is the concept that fighting is more about the martial than the art.

I have always said that there is an art to combat and that every true fighter either tyrant or peacemaker understands this notion and respects it. They know that fighting has value and a code of honor that derived from the battlefield of fallen warriors before them. These teachings were past down and now they represent an art that takes pure understanding to master and harness. Yes, many people have lost their way in martial arts today, but then that only leaves true martial artist to hold on and keep the ways.

I don't find this just with martial arts but in a lot of other things as well these days and especially among the younger generations. Things like integrity, treating others like you would like to be treated, honesty, courtesy, and other traditional values have really fallen by the wayside or taken a back seat to other things. One only has to look at some of the bickering and crap that was going on in the martial arts section a year or two ago or go to some of the Yahoo game rooms and you will see all kinds of crap. I would imagine some or most of you also experience a fair amount of this when out driving, working, and in your own everyday lives. Both my wife and myself feel that growing up these days is way harder and are really glad that we are older rather than younger and looking at a future in this country and the world given the way it is going for most.

As far as the "martial" application of the Martial Arts. Gunnut84 has a valid point. However, I was taught that the Martial Arts is not about fighting. They are more about not fighting. Perhaps I was mislead, but the way it was explained to me was the only time a Martial Artist employs his/her skills is when there is absolutely no alternative. Then you dispense of your attacker as quickly, and efficiently as humanly possible. Preferably without too much harm.

No. You don't have any right to tell anyone what "way" they have to do martial arts

You said

"Why have people lost the true meaning of the martial arts and why would anyone believe that martial arts are only about fighting?"

What was Iado created for? It was created out of a hate filled heart set on killing some out of revenge. That was it's sole purpose. Should we practice this way today, to decapitate a person who does not have a weapon drawn?

Ju Jutsu was created as a way to beat armor.

These techniques are meant to hurt or kill. That is how they first started. People did not invent joint locks, pressure point attacks or weapons to help someone else, they invented to make sure they won the fight

I guess that depends on your thoughts on the "true meaning of martial arts".

These arts might have a discipline/spiritual side to them but they are mainly meant to be used in hand to hand combat on a battlefield. That is their true purpose. If you want to understand the "true meaning of martial arts" vs. fighting concept, you will find they are one in the same. I recommend The Life Giving Sword by Yagyu Munenori on that topic.

While MMA is a competition I do not find it to degrade martial arts any more than Krav Maga, they are all about respecting other people both on and off the mat or the field of combat.

MMA, Krav Maga, Jiu Jitsu, Karate, Kung Fu, Ba Gua, Ching I, Muay Thai to name a few are all about disposing of your enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible. It is only recently that we've made them in to competitions that don't result in death.

It's not about being an ***-beater, that sort of mentality is what I think you're directing this at, and as UFC and movies popularize these arts there will be meatheads/idiots of all forms that attempt to enter them just to be the biggest badass on the block. My current school and my previous schools would never have allowed that sort of mentality, in fact they were/are on the lookout for it and you're not welcome if that's how you walk through the door because this isn't about being out to hurt someone, it's about improving yourself mentally and physically.

It can seem that way at times, but put it into perspective of martial art history it seems to me there has always been two kinds of people who are attracted to martial arts -- the ones who are into it because of the fighting and the ones who may have first been attracted by the "martial" aspect but stayed because of the "art" aspect.

Of the first group of people, their affinity for the combativeness of martial art is not always from a desire for bloodsport, but can be due to necessity - law enforcement officers, soldiers, people who live in tough neighborhoods, etc. Of course you have those who are into martial art for the blood and guts, but I don't think this is any different than other areas in life. Plus, because we live in the age of mass media, things tend to be distorted or overblown.

The other type of people, those who study martial art for more then just the martial-ness have always been around, but because they tend to keep to themselves - shunning fame and notoriety they appear to be the minority of a quiet dedicated few. You have to look for them to find them unlike the noisy others who are easily found even when you don't want to find them.

For what it is worth, I believe the great advances and contributions to martial art are from those who strive and sacrifice away from the spotlight of fame and fortune. Someone mentioned the book "Heiho kadensho" authored by Yagyū Munenori and he's a pretty good example when contrasted with Miyamoto Musashi. The real-life Musashi was nothing like the popular version seen in the movies -- he was gifted, but was also very much an opportunists looking for fame to get a high paying position which ironically eluded him for much of his life. Munenori and Yagyū clan on the other hand prospered while keeping to the background. Musashi's bloodline ended with him, while the Yagyū's are still around teaching their art in their quiet little hamlet of Yagyū-zato.

Martial arts doesn't have to be only about fighting, but that's what they were primarily designed for. This is an historic fact. Any philosophical "deeper meaning" discussions are simply modern add-ons that became part of "martial arts" when hand-to-hand combat was no longer a highly valued skill due to the introduction of modern technology (guns) or changing social climates (Tokugawa Shogunate era of peace). Karate was invented as a civilian self-defense method. Jujitsu/Taijitsu were the MCMAP of their time, hand-to-hand skills used as an adjunct to armed fighting methods. And the earliest martial arts WERE sports. Wrestling, in some form, exists across the globe on the grass-roots level. In the "Old World" of Africa, Europe, and Asia, wrestling contests have existed as long as history. Longer, in all likelihood. Forms of pugilism like Taekyon and ancient Greek boxing also existed primarily as a sport.

The modern MMA phenomenon has been very beneficial to open-minded martial artists. As a widespread combat sport with few restrictions, it's allowed for different philosophies of unarmed combat to be put to the test. The MMA ring or cage is where theory meets practice. Because of MMA, observant individuals can see that the ability to sprawl is a more reliable takedown defense than throwing some Hail Mary strike, and that one-strike knockouts are an unlikely occurrence. THe training methods found in MMA are among the most realistic out there, certainly more realistic than non-contact sparring, point-stop sparring, or sparring where one is restricted to only grappling or striking alone. While not ideal for self-defense, it comes pretty close, and RBSD (Reality Based Self Defense) programs have adopted the full-contact, limited rules training methods used in MMA. THis make MMA more than "sport based applications"; it's "person vs. person applications", which is at the heart of martial arts anyway.

If you want to wax philosophical and add that to your martial arts training, that's your right. But I say again, the primary purpose of martial arts has almost always been to study a better way of punching, slamming, or choking another person. Or hitting them with a stick, or poking them with a blade. When you get to its primary purpose, martial arts is about fighting. To believe otherwise is to be brainwashed by "Karate Kid" movies or the old "Kung Fu" TV series. I enjoy both, but they're works of fiction created for the purposes of drama. Reality is a fist to the face.

a few people on here say martial arts is about hand to hand combat and that is true. but (and i will use karate as an example since that is my expertise) even when it was taught 100 or 200 years ago, it was still emphasised to be used for self defense, and there are several examples of this. one comes to mind when anko itosu dismissed a student for fighting, and considering he taught people he shuri castle, when you got dismissed you where kick out of the castle as well.

so yes you are learning hand to hand combat but that doesnt give you the right to use your skills in street fights. even historically the old master frowned on this.

as for the sports aspect of karate, that more came about in the 1950's, they didnt train for sports and there was maybe one of two competition before that,

people lost there way a long time ago, when they started caring about who is better, and trophies and titles became important, when they cared more about the sports part then they cared about better themselves. i would think this is one of the reasons when Gichin Funakoshi frowned on competition as well.

i think we just notice it more and more because of the internet, and tv. but there have been styles for a while now that didnt teach about the traditional values of tma, like many american combat systems, they focused mainly on fighting

anyway thats my thoughts on the subject.