Do you find it odd that the same people who rail against backyard breeders think rescue is the only way to go?

Hmmmm

There is a lot of failed logic in some of the answers here. I will get to that in a second...

The only time I encourage someone to get a dog from the shelter is when they are looking for a dog with no specific traits and don't seem to want to a lot of "work". That way it is almost a guarantee they will be getting an adult dog - and there are so many kinds to choose from that the shelter staff would be able to help pair them up with a dog.

Now on to the failed logic...

To say that the shelters are not a middle man because they are not paying the BYBs for the dogs they get there - although that may be true in a way - if there were real laws governing breeding then it would be hard for BYBs to exist because they would be making no profit. Let's also add some breed specific "rescues" in to the mix. I hope people realize that there are breeders/rescues out there that put their dogs in their breeding program in to their rescue programs when they can't sell them - this way they are still making money on their dogs by asking for a $200 adoption fee at minimum.

Shelters, in a way, allow BYBs to exist because they make it easy for the dogs to move on to irresponsible owners and end up at the shelter since the BYBs don't have to take the dogs back.

If BYBs ended up having to euthanize their own unwanted dogs, guess what? Bet they wouldn't be breeding anymore.

If people encouraged others to buy from reputable breeders - then BYBs would go out of business because they wouldn't be making their precious profit anymore - then there would be less shelter dogs. See the connection?

This whole thing about genetics not having anything to do with temperament and health is just pathetic. I mean really, do people not take biology in school anymore? I'm sorry to break it to you, but anything that came out of a BYB/shelter is not going to have any sort of guarantee that the dog was bred in its fullest capability to be of its best health and best temperament. Just because I own a purebred, does not make me a zealot. It makes me a person that wants a specific breed for its specific traits. Oh, and I don't particularly enjoy kool-aid ;)

The people that are all about shelters and deny people from buying dogs at reputable breeders - you forget UHave2Be, these are the same people that believe they are "saving" these dogs.

You know how you save these dogs? By fighting BYBs and puppy mills! Good for you that you get all your dogs from a shelter, that's wonderful - but how about you people join the same fight that reputable breeders fight - which is stopping BYBs and puppy mills and thus minimizing the amount of dogs that end up in shelters!!!

And I have to add this for the MILLIONITH time - I have nothing against mutts or shelter dogs. As long as they exist I believe there are people that can give them good homes. I would just prefer that all dogs came from responsible breeders which would also, in turn, help make it so that only responsible people buy dogs (which is also the other problem with dogs in shelters). No irresponsible dolt is going to spend $1,500 on a dog - but they will spend $500, make monthly payments at a pet store, or get a dog from a shelter/rescue.

ADD: @cjrossi - I didn't say you were lying?

And didn't you read this in my answer? "I'm sorry to break it to you, but anything that came out of a BYB/shelter is not going to have any sort of guarantee that the dog was bred in its fullest capability to be of its best health and best temperament. "

I did mention health there, right?

I'm sorry, maybe you can clarify something for me - you objectively have looked at 100+ dogs right? Were they equal mutts to RESPONSIBLY bred purebreds? I only include responsibly bred purebreds because puppy mill dogs or BYB bred dogs don't count in my books. RESPONSIBLY bred purebreds are those that will have the best guarantee in temperament AND health!

So if you did take biology - didn't you learn that you can pass genes on that will determine your overall health? Like diabetes or cancer?

So please show me where a mutt is PROVEN to be healthier than a purebred. A mutt's health/temperament is as much of a shot in the dark and a puppy mill bred or BYB bred purebred - a responsibly bred purebred is a whole other ball game.

Well, first of all, I absolutely would never say that the only place to go is a shelter. Never.

I do, however, regularly recommend people looking in rescue for a dog. I do this for a whole bunch of reasons - the most important of which being that their MONEY is not going to a backyard breeder, even if that is ultimately where the dog came from.

* Many people simply don't need a dog who is necessarily capable of any particular job, they just want a pet.

* Many people are better off getting an adult dog who can wait longer to go outside, won't be an overwhelming puppy for some members of the family, etc where a rescue adult is a good solution.

* Many people have a particular issue, cats for example, and would like to know they are getting a dog who has been tested/lived around cats and doesn't give 2 winks about them. Sometimes this is a good idea with kids where getting an adult out of rescue can be evaluated more easily for his tolerance of kids.

I ALWAYS warn people of the pitfalls involved in rescue when I recommend it, but having purchased rescued dogs myself I find them to be well worth the risk. There is no question that health clearances matter, but if a person is simply not going to pay what a well bred dog is worth - I would much rather see them buy from rescue than from a BYB or puppy mill.

When I got my Lilly from a rescue, I certainly could have gone to a good breeder, but I was looking specifically for an adult that I could observe with my current (older) dog and be absolutely certain that he would be ok with it. There is no way I would have unleashed a puppy on him no matter how well bred it was - he'd hate me forever.

I am also of the opinion that if you have half a brain in your head and you actually TAKE THE TIME to really check into the dog before you just scoop it up and take it home, you should have a pretty darn good idea of what you're getting into with a rescued adult. Certainly there may be some behaviors you didn't expect, but over all, if you bother to do any homework whatsoever you should know what you're getting. (obviously, developing joint problems or other genetic diseases are more difficult, if not impossible, to detect when checking out a rescue)

In the end, no, I absolutely do not see a conflict of interest/double standard. What I see is the logical path of thinking a person would take to ultimately eliminate the epidemic of homeless dogs by eliminating the profit stream to unethical breeders.

I really can't understand how I missed this glorified drama for 2 days...guess I actually had more important things to worry about. Such as helping with an orphaned puppy, rejected by his mother- which yes came from a BYB but was in need as any other puppy...show, mutt, purebred...or whatever.

You have a few good answers here. If someone just wants a dog & nothing more or if they want a specific breed & as an adult-I will almost always point them in the direction of a shelter or rescue.

Although I don't always agree with cjrossi I think he gave you a very good answer & unless you pick a BA, he will get my vote....if I can even find the time to vote on it.

I really do not, even after trying to see your point of view, agree with the logic to always point someone in the direction of a reputable breeder...whenever there are dogs out there who are just as deserving of a home with love as any CH offspring would be.- assuming that is what you are insinuating.

I do find it interesting that someone such as yourself doesn't even understand the simplicity of the reason why most talk sh!te about a BYB & on the other hand encourage a rescue, shelter...what have you.

I don't even care about the TD- It's expected. Just know this....some of THE BEST dogs (health & temperament wise) that have ever passed through my hands were dumped off on us or on the side of the road...or being neglected & given a 2nd chance when we took them in....& most were what some would consider filthy old mongrels, mutts, or "designers".

Not until I wanted something specific did I get into Chihuahua's.

Point is, a lot of people actually like helping when they have every reason to. Not everyone knows what they want & some people are happy to help a dog who is in need. Some people do not know of all the different options they have before or when acquiring a dog/pup.

Reputable breeders dogs are not in need...they will have good homes regardless & those homes are usually picked for them weeks-months-years ahead of time....some people may be impatient.. but at least they are doing a good thing by giving an unwanted dog/pup a chance, "crap-shoot", "shot in the dark", or whatever else you want to call it.

As someone who does hold this standard I will try to explain. It's kind of like this, Buying from a BYB will only encourage them to continue and breed more and more unwise litters. But if you do 'rally' against them and get everyone to agree then the BYB's will sell none of the first puppies, make no money and will most likely stop. It is a long term thing to reduce the number of mutts admitted to shelters.

As for getting dogs in shelters it is about reducing the numbers and giving these neglected animals a loving home, I suppose some people would avoid shelter dogs but if you have no problem dealing with a problem dog that has been abused in the past (As I imagine many people on this board, myself included, wouldn't) then you should try and rescue one of these poor things because they haven't deserved what's happened to them. While I agree it probably is a little wrong to try and push people towards shelters without explaining the possible risk I do believe that any shelter will warn the prospective owner of any problems and they will have a choice. I hope that helps explain what I know can very easily be seen as a double standard in a more understanding way.

Isn't getting a dog from a pound/rescue just eliminating the BYB from the first step? But by not purchasing a dog from a BYB, you are not putting money in their pocket and encouraging their breeding practices. Has someone else? Yes, but by refusing to purchase from a BYB and rescuing the dogs they don't step up for instead, you are saving a life and at least not directly supporting their practices. Isn't the pound/rescue just the new middleman for the BYB? No, it is the place bad, non-commited owners dump their pets. The advantage here is that it's unlikely the BYB would ever know their dog ended up in rescue in the first place, so hopefully they would utilize it as a way to unload unwanted dogs. How do you justify bringing into your life or suggesting it to someone else a dog who most likely will have many health issues in the future as opposed to buying from a reputable breeder? I can justify people looking for a "pet" to consider rescue because while some of them are health nightmares, there are plenty out there that are not. Dogs that have stable temperaments to survive neglect or cruel treatment and still are sweet natured dogs can be found. It's not much different than going to a reputable breeder, you find a reputable rescue that is capable of properly screening their dogs and evaluationg their health prior to placement. They aren't all qualified, but I know that most of the Border Collie rescues do a fabulous job of placing the right dog in the right homes. Do you believe people deserve to have a quality dog from health tested parents no matter what? Yes, if that is what someone wants, I see nothing wrong with buying from reputable breeders. I have both rescue and breeder purchased dogs in my home. It is up to the person looking for the next dog to decide what they are comfortable with in the long run. But I still tell people about rescue because there are some great dogs there and with the right research, they can easily find that perfect family addition.

I did get a dog from a rescue and she has had issues since the day I brought her home. Dog that I got from within the village have all been good dogs. yet they are not "Breeders"

There are some good rescues that screen their dogs but some dont. My dog,( I learned after I adopted her ) was feral, living wild for close to two years and they had to use a humane trap to catch her. I was not told this about her. She was not cheep, she cost me more then any of my other dogs including my retiered racing champion. She has some deep seded issues. I love her but I think most likly I will never get another shelter dog. Shelters have a responsibility to their clients also and when some withhold or sugar coat infornation about the dogs it turns people awayfrom adopting dogs

So where do I go if I do not want a pure bred dog, and i do not want to get a dog from a rescue, what is wrong with getting a mutt from the neighbor who had an accidental litter or the family wit kids that wanted to enjoy a litter of puppys. It is still one less pup in the pound. yes maybe they were not as careful as they should have been but how does that make me irresponsable. Also there is the teory of hybrid vigor to consider

Not everyone can afford to get a dog from a breeder, and some people do like mutts the best.

Rescue isn't for everyone. Of course we know that most of the dogs that are in the shelter are products of puppy mills/ backyard breeders and when people don't spay/neuter their dogs....sometimes they end up in the shelters with litters.

My sister adopted a well cared golden/Pyrenees mix when he was 18 months. That dog was there for less then 2 days and had already 3 people lined up to adopt him, my sister and her boyfriend was lucky and they were chosen. This dog belonged to a rich couple and he was very well behaved. I can't remember the reason why he was surrendered but it wasn't behavioral or anything like that.

I would NEVER support backyard breeders buy buying from them. Sure some shelter dogs have their problems but the ones I've adopted I've been lucky- no health problems or behavioral problems. Its not like I'm going to do anything with the dog like showing or have a job for them to do. Shelter dogs need homes too and shelters don't have waiting lists like reputable breeders do. They come with their shots, sometimes spayed/neutered,etc.

I do encourage people to get from reputable breeders...but again that's not for everyone. Not everyone is wanting to show or breed or have a specific duty in mind for the dog.

I've known come across a few backyard breeders that did genetic testing but nothing else. It's not the norm for them but some of them are starting to, so I guess they want to appear to be reputable.

Shelters won't adopt out an aggressive dog. Those are unfortunately put down. And dogs with major health issues are often put down too, especially since shelters run on donations they can't really afford any expensive treatments.I've known some dog's treatment to be sponsored by someone and those were the lucky dogs.

We're planning on having a basset in the future. Most likely he/she will be a rescue because we're just wanting a pet, not a show dog.

I don't see it as a double standard at all.

The issue is that by directly buying from a BYB, you are giving them money and supporting them. By adopting a dog, you are giving the shelter money, therefore contributing even in a small way to the shelter being able to afford to house more dogs and for longer periods of time.

There are still temperament and health issues that may be a problem by rescuing a dog, but I don't see that as a big issue, really. If you love your dog, you love your dog.

Another problem is that dogs from reputable breeders are very expensive, while adoption fees are usually minimal, and so many people can't afford a puppy from a reputable breeder.

The biggest difference is that by adopting, you are saving a dog's life. Most dogs in shelters are not adopted because people continue to buy from breeders.

Now, if given the choice between a BYB and a reputable breeder, you should always go with a reputable breeder. But unless you want to show the dog, I really don't see why anyone would buy from a reputable breeder rather than adopting. Of course there are benefits like getting a healthy dog that adheres to the breed standard and temperament, but I never understood why average dog owners, not ones who show, do not adopt. It just doesn't make sense that people who claim to be dog lovers wouldn't save a dog from being euthanized.

No, I don't find it odd at all.

What I DO find odd, is how much people exaggerate when they say backyard bred dogs are going to be unhealthy and unstable. Now, don't get me wrong, they DO end up that way. But the vast majority are DECENT. They may have a few kinks here or there, but usually it can be fixed. It's a lot like us humans. Most people with health conditions still have kids, and yes, their kids do come out sickly, but we can still deal and live decent lives.

That's why I continue to say it's okay to rescue. My thoughts are that if they want a dog from a backyard breeder, the least they could do is save themselves some money and get the SAME QUALITY DOG from the shelter for a considerably lower price, as WELL as saving a life from the needle! This way, they aren't supporting backyard breeders banks, but are taking needy dogs off the streets!

"Why wouldn't you always encourage someone to get a dog from a reputable breeder instead?"

I *do*, IF they are looking for something very specific. But I also mention shelters, because the workers there can be quite good a placing a dog in a home based on the owners needs as well.

Overall, I say your argument is weak sauce (and I do not mean that in a degrading way at all).

@Turbo Dog

"Do you realize that the American Humane society of the US spends 99% of their donations on political contributions and their own salaries? NOT on supporting local shelters? But these are the people who put out all the commercials with the pictures of the poor little abused dogs at the byb`s. Its propaganda.

where did you get your statistic? I understand it's a gross exaggeration not meant to be taken literally, but where did you get this idea? Any proof? I'm asking because I've been to shelters and seen the effects of donations. Think dog crates, food, toys, etc. EVERYWHERE. Are you telling me that money is all coming from that 1%?

Well here's the thing, shelters don't actively breed dogs. When you buy from a shelter, the money (is supposed, but not all shelters are honest) goes into getting shots, food, and care for the other dogs. Not into lining the pockets of the workers and producing another litter.

I have no problem with encouraging from a reputable breeder as well.

If you buy from a byb or pet store, you're providing the demand, and they'll continue to supply. BYB's don't make money dumping dogs at the shelter, they make money by selling to pet stores and the general public.

If you rescue, you're saving a life, it's cheaper, and it's a good chance for decent dog.

If you buy from a reputable breeder, you're getting a high quality dog with the traits you want, but it's pricey.