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Muslims, if the crucifixion never happened..?
..and Allah knew there would be much conjecture..why could he not protect his word as a record of the event?
Many Muslims claim that the reason Allah did not protect his word was they were for a specific people and time.
Yet he is all knowing and he knew many believed in the atonement of Jesus Christ.
So rather than keep his word, he sends another word to deny his earlier word?
You claim he is capable of keeping his word.. and there would definitely be a good reason for him to protect ALL of his word.
He spends much time in the Quran denying the crucifixion, when all he would have to have done is protect his own word..as you claim he does with the Quran.
You don't know me.. I see your question..care to answer mine?
Abdul Malik, The atonement and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the Gospel.
If there is an aotnement the Quran is a lie... So how is this unimportant to your Allah?
Not keeping his word is more important than people believing in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and believing the Quran is a lie?
Jana. Hon, you need to read your Quran.
004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Why would not keeping his word be so important to him.. especially when it makes him appear as a liar?
Abdul Malik, You are making a personal judgment not answering the question.
If Allah can keep his word.. why would it be important for him to make it appear he did not care about the truth?
Abdul Malik I know the history of the Bible and the unfortuante history of your Quran. You are attmpting to change the subject No?
Defending Sunnah,
This is not turning anything around.. It is actually a fair question God answers in his word.
Why not answer my question and I will show you where God answers yours?
Defending Sunnah, God answers fair questions in the true word of God.. can your Allah answer my fair question in the Quran? Oh and the Quran does call this Gospel the Word of God.
Abdulmalik Sir this argument is one of the most ridiculous of all of Islams stories.
The oldest Quran you will ever locate is the Yemen Quran.. of course this is not the Utheman Quran you have of which the oldest is the Tekenshent Quran.. Which is late 8th century at best.
We wont even go into all the Qurans Uthman burned.. even before Uthman.. A goat ate part of the Quran. Muhammad forgot parts of the Quran, memorizers forgot parts of the Quran, memorizers died in battle.
Uthman takes up six Quran's none of which were the same, made up one Quran and ordered six burned...
This is your Uthman Zayed Quran... No original, never was.
ALL of this because you can not answer a question?
Ruchjat K, Show ME.. Isn't that the instructions from your Allah? If what you say is true... Show me your proof.
Does Your Allah not play by his own rules?
If your Allah lost or allowed men to change his word.. then you can't prove it... and Allah asks you to ask for proof... so why did Allah not leave proof?
Defending Sunnah, I believe your Quran says your Muhammad is prophsied in my Gospel.. if MY Gospel is not the Gospel.. then Allah must surely be wrong... Now when will you answer my question?
Abdul Malik, I have spent much time answering question you answerers are posing.. None of you are answering my question and I am the questioner.. and I am being unreasonable?
Defending Sunnah, If you believe that in all of your rhetoric is the answer to my question.. I feel for you.. You did actually read the question didn't you? Telling me Christians are crazy or the Gospel is corrupt.. is not answering why Allah would not keep his word.. is it?
fajr, Wasn't Muhammad and your Quran from after 650? Are you thinking Muhammad was referring to the Gospel of Thomas as the true Gospel?
The Quran refers to the Injeel as the book of the Christians.. the book they HAVE... So are you telling me the Gospel of Thomas was the book the Christians had in 650AD? We have early writings of the church Fathers as early as 140 AD referring to the Gospels of Mathew, Mark Luke and John and authorizing them as their books, How does this work?
The truth is the books of the NT were referred to by the church fathers in their writings as authoritative by the mid second century. We have references to various NT texts by Polycarp 150AD, Justin Martyr 140AD, Irenaeus 170AD.
So you are telling me in 650 AD Allah was unaware of what book the Christian HAD???
βレⅰ₮z, You KNOW my point. Let's assume you are right. The Gospel is unchanged and is in agreement with the Quran and is somewhere locked away...
Then this is the book the Quran refers to as the book the Christians HAVE.. so sometime between the writing of the Quran and this time.. someone took away the Christians book.. and no one noticed. But the books are still on display that predate Islam by hundreds of years. Oh yeah you know my point.. but my point is not what you want to know.
13 Answers
- brummetLv 45 years ago
You have selectively omitted many different texts that recounted "at the 3rd day". You have additionally fallen into the unsuitable belief of present day reckoning. This was once written for Jews by means of Jews a few 2000 years in the past. Firstly, by means of Jewish reckoning, a side of an afternoon is counted as a whole day, which includes 24 hours (an afternoon and a night time). Now, move over the series. Secondly, what approximately the ones texts that recounted that Jesus will upward push "at the 3rd day"? Draw up a Table with "3 days and 3 nights" texts at the left, and "at the 3rd day" texts at the proper. What do you feel now? There are a couple of Christians who declare that Jesus was once crucified on Wednesday. They use a textual content within the ebook of Daniel that claims that the Messiah shall be reduce off in the middle of the week, which means Wednesday. But that is prophetic time and no longer literal time. Besides, the series of parties obviously confirmed that Jesus WAS crucified on Friday, as you rightly mentioned.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Well, didn't read it all, but I'll say this: I agree that God didn't need Mohammed to come along and deny his word. His word is truth and he didn't need Islam to add to it. The Bible tells what will happen to those who add to his true word.
Revelation 22:18-19 (New King James Version)
A Warning
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
- ²§trÖñg°Lv 61 decade ago
Djamntx
Does the Bible exist in the original form anywhere on earth? How about searching the original manuscript that might help you to resolve your confusions & doubts.
Secondly, you said, Yousef Estes never replied you back. Here is a link for his facebook account, i am sure that he shall respond you back now. :)
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Yusuf-Estes/92095797...
Edit:...1
Thanks for posting data about your original Bible. I too can google it.
But point is:
Do you own an original Bible with original text?
After knowing the original language of Bible, did you put an effort to learn that language to understand Bible yet?
Edit....2
It is said that: To solve a problem one must get into its root causes, that is how one resolves the issues by addressing the root causes.
That is why i inquired:
Do you own an original Bible's manuscript?
Did you learn its original language to understand the message?
I am sure, that shall resolve many confusions bothering you.
There are many things which no one wants to answer.
For example:
1- Jesus of the English Bible complains about the 'crucifixion'
("Eli! Eli! Lama sabachthani? - My God! My God! Why have You forsaken me?") [Mk 15:34]
2- How can Jesus be the "Only Begotten Son" of John 3:16? When in Psalms 2:7 David is God's "Begotten Son?"
That is why i am requesting you to read your original Bible. :)
Edit:....3
No. Sir
Didn't God create Adam from dirt? -- So, why does he need Mary to make Jesus?
Edit.....4
Djmantx
I can take a horse to the water but can't make him drink. Right?
Same is the case with you. :)
You keep asking questions, you get the answers but you don't want to understand & accept it. Bcoz Bible is truth and its not corrupted as per you. Right?
Then why does the Catholic Bible has seven (7) more books than the Protestant Bible? Why?
- † ђ๏קєLv 71 decade ago
@Defending Sunnah........ He does not have to answer your question
He is the one that asked a question. You are supposed to answer. I
see you could not to that
Obviously, you and no one else knows the answer.
........NOTICE TO ALL READERS.........
Christianity is the Religion of God!!
God is Great!!!!
Source(s): . - How do you think about the answers? You can sign in to vote the answer.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
you feel very strong with your question , your bible contradict this topic ,please read King James version edition 1952 ,no crucifixionMark 16 end at verse 8 , open your bible NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION ,edition 1973 ,1978 and 1981 Mark 16 before the verse 9 begin please read the foot note The MOST RELIABLE EARLY MANUSCRIPTS AND OTHER ANCIENT WITNESSES DO NOT HAVE MARK 16 9 TO 20 please read GOOD NEWS BIBLE chapter MARK 16 foot note ,same as N I v . do you believe in contradiction ?Britannica says the crucifixion was introduce 200 later ,where is the truth ? please ask your priest ,and the false scribe Jeremiah 8 verse 8
Source(s): the above bible and britannica - Anonymous1 decade ago
That belief that Jesus wasn't crucified is not only in the Quran but in your own books . It is mentioned in the Gospel of Thomas and The Gospel of the Infancy. These gospels are considered heretic by Christians but in the Eyes of Allah they're truthful . Christians consider them heretic for their own motives , to cover the truth that they don't like !!
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Edit
Of course Muhammad didn't know about those Gospels I mentioned and that proves him truthful . The bible which the Quran refers is the one Jesus mentioned here
Mt 26:13 "Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her."
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Edit
Calm down . Of course Allah knows about the corrupted bible that's why the Quran is correcting those wrong beliefs in it .
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Re-Edited Completely :
Djmantx, the issue of the Crucifixion was not as big an issue as taking a man as God, or part God, etc. Atonement has Always been essentially by repenting. We know this through repeated transmissions of the messages of the Prophets and Scriptures... Its only those in whose hearts is disease that dwell on minor side issues, like the crucifixion...Why ? Because you want to prove your belief, and mold the scriptures to suit it. [If you looked at the scripture you have without this bias, firstly, you wouldn't blindly trust it 100%, as its not preserved, has many errors, etc. Secondly, you would come to the conclusion Islam is the truth] .. .so if you reject what is clear (from yoru own fitrah/nature, and from your own texts, and from our scripture, which comes with its own proofs of being from God (its miraculous nature)), then why are you dwelling on the issue of crucifixion ? (Thats insincerity towards knowledge and God, so don't blame God)
You have a lot of issues in Logic, in understanding the Gospels, in understanding the Qur'an, you can't even understand your own arguments (as Defending Sunnah pointed out, using your own arguments to demolish your own beliefs)..... But you choose to be arrogant and not listen or respond.....so what exactly is the point of speaking to you any further ?
28:55. And when they hear Al-Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk), they withdraw from it and say: "To us our deeds, and to you your deeds. Peace be to you. We seek not the ignorant."
______________________
Defending Sunnah ~ أَمْ تَحْسَبُ أَنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ يَسْمَعُونَ أَوْ يَعْقِلُونَ ۚ إِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا كَالْأَنْعَامِ ۖ بَلْ هُمْ أَضَلُّ سَبِيلًا I used to get into much longer "debates" with these, and the innovators as well, until I realised the Best Appraoch was what the Salaf were upon. Alhamdulillah, they were very Wise.
- RuchjatLv 71 decade ago
In the original Injil (Bible) Allah did not say that Isa Al Masih was killed through crucifixion but after it was changed by dirty hands,Jesus was killed.So Allah cleared it in the last updated Allah's life guide the Qur'an. that Isa Al Masih was saved and lifted into the skies. Allah is not and never be a liar.
- 1 decade ago
hun, Islam never denies that ther was a crucifixion. the bible has actually been edited by other leaders long after it was first brought down so how can it honestly be trusted word for word? Quran has been untouched and are the words straight from God. the story of Jesus (pbuh) was that he did not die. the one who betrayed him and led the enemies to Jesus was the once who faced the great deal of punishment himself. he was left ther to be crucified in place of Eisa (Jesus) while the others believed it to be Eisa. that was the traitor's punishment who wanted a prophet of God to be tortured and killed all for a small gain. Eisa never died tho.
- βレⅰ₮zLv 41 decade ago
What's the point dj?
you're not gonna listen and you'll eventually pick your Christian friend's answer
You asked this Q many times, if you're not satisfied with the answers cause they dont correspond to your prejudice, then ask real muslim scholars, and if you don't get satisfied either, then keep on challenging God's will, we all know who will win eventually.
Source(s): PS: i have stated billion times that the word of God was never corrupted to begin with, the valid version of the Gospels is kept away from the public, but u never listen.