Is it possible to talk of "vulgarity" in classical music?

I'm not sure I agree with the basis for the definitions of "vulgar" and "refined" to a certain extent composers are whatever their patrons want them to be. It's also important to realize that composers are not necessarily tied down to a single aesthetic, they can change and grow over time. Mozart wrote masses for the catholic church and also operas with lusty romance stories. After the schism of the catholic church it was not uncommon for a composer to change his religion to get a job. Some even converted several times.

For an idea of something vulgar in Shostakovich you need go no further than the infamous trombone glissandi in "Lady Mcbeth of Mtensk". But the very same composer wrote what I suspect many would call "refined string quartets and symphonies.

I'm skeptical about using the classifications of "Vulgar" and "Refined" because it doesn't seem to convey any significant information about a composer or performer, though it could conceivably tell you something about a specific composition.

I suspect a better translation into english would be "low brow" and "high brow". Within classical music a Bach fugue or a Brahms symphony would be high brow, Phillip Glass would be low brow.

There are a lot of things that can attribute to a composer being "vulgar". I lot of it has to do with the time they were alive in. Like what may not be considered vulgar to us, would be extremely inappropriate one or two hundred years ago. Shostakovitch may have been considered vulgar because he worked under a communist regime with very strict ideals for what music should be. Any thing out of the ordinary that he wrote, the government would go ballistic. Then there's Stravinsky..he worked in Paris a little earlier than when Shostakovitch was around. He was able to get away with a lot more because of the art scene in Paris, but when he premiered The Rite of Spring, people actually started a riot because they were so shocked and appalled by his ballet. Where as now, the ballet it self is rarely preformed, but the music is celebrated, showcased and studies.

"Vulgarity" is really all about the context in which the piece was composed. Odd harmonies and chromaticism may have been considered un-refined when they first emerged in music, but now they are almost a standard.

It's possible to call anything vulgar. It's a matter of opinion - if you think a musician hams it up too much, dressing in glittery capes, playing third-rate popular tunes and trying to awe the audience with their pompousness (like Liberace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WC1OsdX2LM ), you could call that vulgar. If a conductor waves his or her arms around wildly and performs an interpretive dance on the podium (like Vengerov in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su5sA35TcR8 ), that would be quite vulgar as well. Also, productions of opera can be terribly vulgar if some egomaniac director decides to stage a masterpiece like Don Giovanni in a dumpster (see Calixto Bieito's disgusting desecration of Mozart at the Liceu in Barcelona in 2008: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTaZCenYmMc )

I suppose someone might call a composer vulgar if the composer is very rude, or if they resort to musical cliche and pander too much to popular tastes. I would never call Shostakovich vulgar, though. On the contrary, Stalin persecuted Shostakovich and other avant-garde composers for being too elitist ("formalist"). Maybe some prude would call Shostakovich vulgar for portraying sexual themes in opera (Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk District: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDfVTVxakGA ).

CHESSLARUS, friend, your question is very interesting

I think that respect is a basic element that must be observed in any question that is asked or answered

Like you, in my questions and answers always intent apply it

First ……… ¿What means vulgar?

Concern to the common people

Talk of the word vulgar is so complicated and a very difficult theme because is strange and not often in this section for any that appreciate the Classical Music like you do

None Music is vulgar, only would be the words that be contained in

Impossible say that X or Y MUSIC is vulgar ……….. IMPOSSIBLE

I believe that is only a subjective appreciation

Only, and just only, if the connotation that try it is to say that in the strictly means of the word vulgar, concern to the common people would be accepted, but not in the way of INSULT like pretend it

In this case, at last, all the Top Ten of Classical Music are vulgar because they are been listen for millions of peoples in all the world and, say it again, in the strictly means of the word vulgar, that’s qualified them in this way

I confess you that not all the Classical Music is of my absolute satisfaction or pleasure, not CHESSLAR, but would be a great mistake if I extern to all and say it with specific themes and his composers in an open question because, involuntary, would be hurt and offend some persons in his very respectable personal preferences

I can’t say that some Music is vulgar ………. Never say it

Never say it having in mind the insult

Not is valid and neither is ethic

Must be very carefully in this theme ………. very carefully

Insist, the respect of the preferences of all the persons must be basic and fundamental

Of course, is totally valid talk positively of any theme or composer in Classical Music but, if the question is for critic, then must have deeply and knowledge elements for do it responsively and too have it with very prudently, and always with affability, courtesy and respect ………. ALWAYS

Never hurt, even and when only be in Musical choices

Any person that break this principles will be demonstrate to be in need of sensibility, prudence, high feeling, respect , sense of touch but mainly of ….. sentido común

Critic a theme only for caprice in base of valuation strictly personals, just exhibit and show the poor and low education of who do

This is my humble and personal appreciation CHESSLAR

CHESSLARUS, pardon and excuse me for my very bad English and forget it please, but I’m not precisely strong in this language

But your question is really very attractive and don’t resist it

This is the first question in YR that I answer in this idiom and hope would be the last ………. Je Je

I’m sure that you understand me and this is enough

Greetings amigo

Here's some good vulgar music . . .

From PDQ Bach's "The Stoned Guest"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSSJKs8wHHQ&feature...

PDQ Bach: "Erotica" Variations for Banned Instruments and Piano, S. 36EE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgjNwpYy5q0

PDQ Bach Schleptet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCXVec9b8mc&feature...