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judomofo asked in SportsMartial Arts · 1 decade ago

Seperating the wheat from the chaff.. I gotta know?!?

Been a while since we done this, to seperate fanboys from practitioners, I would like to know your thoughts on the following questions. I will give my input in PMs to answerers.

1. (MMA/Boxing) When fighting someone left handed, what do you differently footwork wise?

2. (Krav/Self Defense) Knife wielding opponent, you have complete control of the knife arm, how do you dislodge the weapon?

3. (General MA): In the blood choke version of Hadaka Jime or "Rear Naked Choke" what action do you do to lock the choke on, as in the final step to truly "set the choke"?

4. (General MA): When executing a foot sweep, timing wise when do you do it? (i.e. when all opponent is leaning forward all weight is on that foot, when all weight is on opposite foot, when weight is evenly distributed, etc)

5. (General MA): You have opponents arm under control, thumb towards ground and extended, where do you strike to disable this arm? Be specific please.

6. (General MA): Define Mushin to you, or any experience you have with it.

7. (MMA/Boxing) What is the difference between a step jab and a straight jab, and when would you do one over the other?

8. (General MA): Signs and symptoms of someone who is truly unconscious vs. faking it.

9. (MMA) What makes the heel hook so dangerous?

10. (General MA) When breaking a grip, what is the direction you go? Where is the grip the weakest?

Update:

EDIT: Some good stuff so far from Frank and the Heat.

Update 2:

Edit 2: Some great answers, trying to get feedback to all of you. Notice that in the 48 hours or so this has been up, there have been over 200 answers touting Krav Maga, MMA/BJJ, and various other Martial Arts answers, yet only a handful of people have actually answered a question regarding actual technique.

Which Alex, is kind of the point. Seems your purpose is more to inflame, these are simple technique questions in which practitioners, and even practitioners outside of a chosen art could answer, or at best honestly say the didn't know. I ask not just to see who here actually trains and who doesn't (I pretty much already know who falls under which category) but also to see answers from different people and perspectives who can enlighten me as to different ideas and thoughts on techniques and situations that I haven't been exposed to.

I would have never equated Mushin to motorcycle riding, it was an enlightening for me to hear. It was interesting to hear other ideologies and thoug

9 Answers

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  • 1 decade ago
    Favorite Answer

    1Not a boxer but I trained for a very short period. You circle left. Also I want my left foot on the outside of their right foot to set up my strong hand.

    2no krav maga, but this would depend on how I controlled the arm. I can se a simple wrist lock and apply pressure to force the release. If I have them in a hammer lock I could simply grabbed the face and apply pressure to the bone under the nose. AN armbar and could strike the joint and nerve above the elbow. If there is a structure like the wall, desk, floor, etc I could cause them to strike it with their hand that is holding the knife to force them to let go.

    3 You use your legs to set the choke and arch the back

    4This depend greatly on what the attacker is doing. If they are pulling or coming forward. Let's say they are coming forward. I would step back or in a circle. Most likely a circle and pull to off balance them in them and as they step the opposite foot forward sweep that foot before it is completely placed on the ground. B. Step in while pushing to off balance and sweep the foot causing them to fall in the direction of the foot with the weight on it. C. Again I'm going to cause them to step and sweep the foot before they can place all of their weight on the foot. I have an instructor that would sweep the foot with the weight on it by going through the entire ankle. The intent is to hurt the ankle or break it as he sweeps. Foot sweeps are to my strong suit. I prefer a reap to a sweep.

    5 The strike can be the jugular notch, but I think what you are looking for is the medial nerve. Of course it could be at the joint too to break or attempt to break.

    6the mind of no mind. I was at a concert when I was young. A gun was put to my head. It happened so fast I didn't know it was real. I had the guy and the gun in a wrist lock and the gun was in my hand before I realized it was real. I had no preconceived notion on how I was going to defend myself. My training just took over. This has happened to me with a knife too. I worked at a school. A student took out a knife intended on cutting another student. I stepped in tai sabaki as a grabbed the wrist with the weapon. I politely asked the student to dropped the weapon 3 time. Each time I applied more pressure until the hand release the weapon.

    7Again not a boxer, but a step jab is when you step while performing a jab. I would do this to close the distance to use my jab to set up my follow up with my right. I should get more power out of stepping an jabbing. Most boxer use a jab to keep a guy at bay and to pepper the guy in order to set up the strong punch. The head snaps back and they don't see the other one coming.

    8you can touch their eyelashes, if they blink or try to keep them close they are faking or you can lift their hand over the head and let it go so that the hand will hit them in the face. If they keep their hands from hitting themselves in the face they are faking. However, I would never do either in a fight.

    9 you can injure the the acl or the knee

    10go towards the thumb. It is the weakest point on the joint. I have a new class of white belts. We are teaching them that.

    10

    Source(s): Martial Arts since 1982 Black Belt in Shorin Ryu Black Belt in Jujitsu Brown Belt in Judo Really should have practice my sweeps more.
  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    1. Frank mentioned the circling already so I'll go with another detail. Place the left foot outside of the southpaw's right foot to limit their movement.

    2. Well, I have not done Krav Maga. We know that disarming a weapon wielding attacker (as they are not a simple opponent) is no easy task and the focus is not to win, but to survive. I've studied peeling the knife away, and that has seemed to be the most difficult to just plain pointless when the attacker is really struggling to get you. Striking the back of the hand has worked the most for me in practice. Any joint-bending has proven to be about 50/50 with a success rate of dislodging the weapon. Getting cut is expected.

    3. Right arm around neck gripping my own left biceps, left arm around right arm/wrist, left hand behind their head and under your chin, with heel hooks in to arch their body if laying down, otherwise concave the chest, make it big, bring down the elbows causing their head to point down.

    4. Shifting weight to that leg, evenly balanced on that leg. If they're shifting away from that leg it's pointless, the tripod base has moved away from where you are attacking.

    5. Just above the elbow (TW12). I'm not sure if this is the angle of the arm with the thumb down that you may be referring to. (Please, if not, message me and I'll provide a different response.)

    6.Mushin - no mind - to me is not having the distracting thoughts of your surroundings, emotions, or other people, which allows you to be purely present in the moment. I literally have to find this state everyday, as I am an actor, and distracting thoughts abound. I've experienced this in life with the military, and in being assaulted as well; just liked that I used it for my job, without having the threat of injury too.

    7. I'm not a boxer, so I don't know the specific rules for this concept. Please enlighten.

    8. Dialated pupils, unresponsive to stimuli, stiff muscular structure, limp muscular structure, strong abdominal breathing, and sometimes seizing are signs of actually being unconscious.

    9. The pressure on the knee is not felt and that can be devastating as this is where the focus of the technique is, not the ankle.

    10. Twisted to the sides or back up the arm with the forces. - EDIT - the 'forces' are my leverage forces, moving in the direction of the wrist to the elbow for that particular releasing of the grip strength.

  • 1 decade ago

    1) You circle left instead of right, to stay away from the power.

    2) I don't do krav maga, I don't know.

    3) stretch your opponent out by extending legs and arching the back to make the choke even more powerful.

    4) If properly done, you can do it even if the weight is evenly distributed.

    5) I would actually go for a lock on this one, even though my grappling knowledge is limited.

    6) I don't think I have acquired enough skill to achive Mushin yet.

    7) The step jab adds more power at the expense of losing your stance , the straight jab is more defensive.

    8) Don't know if you mean in the middle of a fight, but good a way to check is to hold the persons hand as High over there head as it will go.Let go.If they slap them selves in the face then they are passed out.If they pull the hand down to there side then they are faking it.

    9) Potential broken ankle..... ouch.

    10) The grip is weakest at the thumb, so that's the direction you go.

    Source(s): my brain ;)
  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    1. I don't have enough experience to answer adequately. My standard style involve flipping from side to side to set myself up and to deal with things as they come. A poor style that i've been trying to fix.

    2. Dislodging the weapon could be done through breaking the wrist if you have control of the wrist, but the situation would seem to indicate that breaking the elbow would be the better choice.

    3. Not enough practice with ground chokes to answer.

    4. It depends on both the sweep and the purpose of the sweep. Although I may be mixed up with sweep and reap.

    5. Hitting elbow throw, come-along pin or a forearm block to the elbow

    6. A state of absolute relaxation and calmness

    7. Not a clue in the world, neither terms are used in Hapkido.

    8. Not enough knowledge

    9. the execissive damage it causes to multiple ligements and joints

    10. Towards the thumb, away from the fingers.

    Judging based off the other two it looks like I need a vast deal more work, especially on ground work and medical conditions. Guess I fall in the chaff category eh?

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  • 1 decade ago

    1. (Pass - not sure I'm experienced enough to answer properly)

    2. With complete control of the arm, I'd either go for a wrist lock or strike at the back of the hand. I've been shown how to use the blade of a one-edged knife for leverage, but I'm not comfortable with that.

    3. Don't know if this counts, but my main understanding of blood chokes came from a Yoshinkan instructor who told us to press our forearms on either side of uke's neck - palms facing downward and the knife hand bent "upwards" (like aiki-age in Daito-ryu) towards uke's head; then we pull the hands apart while applying pressure and rotating the wrist "downward" (like aiki-sage in Daito-ryu) in order to move the muscles protecting the carotid and apply the choke. (Sorry if that didn't make any sense.)

    4. When the opponent is in the process of shifting weight to that leg.

    5. Like Shienaran, I've been taught more to control than to strike; mostly by wrapping my arm above the opponent's elbow into hiji-jime, or by using my knife hand to rotate his elbow down and forward into ikkyo. Not sure how to strike properly in cases like these, to be honest.

    6. Entering a state of mind where you acknowledge but choose not to react to emotions (especially fear, anxiety, etc.) and letting your body react the way it has trained to do. Interestingly, like Shienaran, my closest experience in mushin was also while riding a motorcycle in rush hour traffic - only in my case it was a near head-on collision with a car from the opposite direction who swerved into my lane. I simply moved - didn't (have time to) think, and the rush of panic only came later on.

    7. (Pass)

    8. (Pass - To be honest, I never thought about this before... )

    9. (Pass)

    10. The thumb; this is especially highlighted in Japanese sword arts, where you're primarily trained to grip with the last three fingers instead of the thumb and forefinger.

    EDIT:

    @Shienaran: Ah, thanks... Something new to try in the dojo...

    Uh, anyway, what's the passing grade for this test? And will there be remedials? ;)

  • 1 decade ago

    1) I circle towards in the opposite direction to avoid his power hand. I also tend to be more aggressive with my circling (as in, I advance/ cut the angle) to get my lead foot outside of his lead foot to give me cross a clear shot down the middle while obscuring the target for his cross.

    2) I don't train Krav Maga or for self defense, per se, but I've done some live drilling with a knife wielding opponent. When I get the arm under control, I tend to either do a rotational wrist lock (sankyo?) or waki gatame. I've also grabbed the pinky to open his hand or twisted it out by the butt of the handle. Being relatively unschooled on this subject, I don't really have a good definitive answer.

    3) Suck the elbows down and in, towards my body.

    4) Ideally, I would sweep the foot as weight is being transferred on to it. Of the answers given, I could see myself doing it either when all the weight is on the foot I'm sweeping if I had the right grips, like if I were doing a thai clinch steering wheel thing where I put all of his weight on one foot then swept it. But in that case, the finish usually isn't a clean sweep so much as you blocking with your foot and levering them over it. On the other hand, if their weight was centered, I could sweep out one leg and maneuver their weight on to their now-absent support if I kept my sweeping foot 'sticky' enough to keep their leg out of commission long enough for them to fall. Hahah, idk I've got terrible Judo... I just shoot doubles.

    5) I have no idea what position this would be... I imagine it kinda like waki gatame, in which case I wouldn't strike anything to disable the arm. I would just forcefully apply the sub until the elbow popped.

    6) I think I've only TRULY experienced it in my last MMA fight. My mind was so hectic that it became clear and empty -- as if all the thoughts and noise running through my head combined to make a sound so loud that it was incomprehensible and past my threshold of understanding... so I just tuned it out. It was like the opposite of a 'deafening silence.'

    When I watched the video afterward, I had some awesome evasions and counters that were timed so well that I was shocked. I've never done this stuff quite as clean in sparring, but probably because I was thinking too much and because neither of our intent was at 100 percent. None of my moves were excessively calculated, they were just performed with no hesitation and full commitment. I've come close in hard rolling/sparring sessions before and since, but that's the only time I've achieved such "no-mindedness."

    7) I'm not sure what 'straight jab' is, but I'm going to assume thats when you pop your jab with only your arm and shoulders -- independent of your lower body. I use a stepping jab to advance or when I'm chasing. On the other hand, I throw (my interpretation of a) straight jab to end a combo as I'm backing away or circling out. It's the only attack you can do completely simultaneous to retreating.

    8) Snoring, and...? I don't know. I've been unconscious more than I've dealt with unconscious people

    9) Doesn't actually hurt until somethings torn.

    10) The direction of the thumb

  • 1 decade ago

    1. When you say fighting someone left handed do you mean fighting a southpaw or you fight in a southpaw stance? If it's the former, then you circle to the left, if it's the latter, you circle to the right.

    2. Have not trained in Krav Maga, but have had training in Kali, we were taught to step to the opponent's blindside and establish control of the elbow ASAP and once there to never let go of the elbow, you can then use your free hand to disarm him in a variety of ways depending on your skill level or if you're holding a stick or blade to strike him with it, while still holding on to his elbow with the other hand.

    3. Use your free hand to pull his forehead up so you can slip your choking arm into place then relax your choking arm and use your other arm to squeeze your forearm towards your biceps like a vise with the point of the V under his chin and as Frank has stated, bridge up to stretch his back

    4. At my skill level(which isn't that good), depending on which direction I'm pulling or pushing him into, I usually wait til all his weight is on one foot and sweep that foot.

    5. In Aikido, we were taught to control not strike, usually when we have the Uke in that position, we use the blade of the hand to put pressure on the spot between the tricep and the elbow to push him down and pin him to the mat, but it could easily be converted into a strike if you wanted.

    Edit:@Shiro Kuma: I'm actually thinking about Ikkyo, Sankyo and Gokkyo where instead of pushing down on his elbow to pin him before applying the sitting lock, you yank his wrist down suddenly locking the elbows and strike it with your forearm like an armbar before driving him to the mat.

    6. It's a state of mind where you strip yourself of any emotion and just instinctively react to any stimuli. The closest I got was while driving my motorcycle through rush hour traffic and nearly getting sideswiped by a car, I didn't react emotionally nor did I stop to yell at the driver, I just kept my eyes on the road and kept driving while instinctively avoiding all the oncoming traffic til I got to a safe spot.

    7. You use a Step Jab to set up a combination, Straight Jabs are used to stop a rushing opponent's momentum.

    8. This one I have problems with, since I once slapped a guillotine choke on our assistant instructor and didn't realize he passed out thinking he was just playing possum like he usually did, good thing I let go because my arms were tired. Which is why I'm reluctant to apply chokes during sparring and prefer jointlocks.

    9. Your opponent tends to use his whole body to wrench himself free, putting his whole weight behind the momentum, this makes the chances of joint injury especially to the knee very high, especially if you've locked his ankle in real tight.

    10. Towards the thumb.

  • 1 decade ago

    i gotta agree with the last guy on every question bar one. and i dont know anything about krav maga. so i wont comment. however he got number 9 wrong. you dont break the ankle from any heel hook i have ever seen. the problem is with the anterior and posterior cruciate ligaments(depending on which way you hook)

    and you will not feel pain until there is at least some damage done to some knee ligaments so by the time you have tapped you are already screwed.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    so if you already know these answers, why are you asking the question?

    it doesn't really matter if you think person A or person B has more knowledge, in fact, your opinion of us really doesn't matter at all

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