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Anonymous
Anonymous asked in Science & MathematicsAstronomy & Space · 10 years ago

Is there a possible alternative to the expansion of space?

If I were to hypothesise using well known theories: -

1. The universe started with a big bang, because particle physics seems to require it.

2. There was a very brief inflationary period, because it explains certain observed properties.

3. The entropy of the universe always increases.

And then suggest the moment inflation ended the expansion of space ended, and what we now observe is the shrinking of all subatomic particles, atoms and matter, whilst light and gravity are maintained in the observed relationship with this ever diminishing matter. What test could prove such an idea false? Couldn't an accelerating expansion of space fit with such an idea? Would it fail the Occam's razor test?

Update:

Chris R,

The whole point in such a scenario is, we could not discern the shrinking atoms because we and everything around would be shrinking at the same rate including light speed and its red/blue shift effect, plus the four (or is that now five) forces of nature; everything except outer space which remains fixed, or possibly shrinking at a lesser rate than everything it contains.

Update 2:

I don't quite see how this idea fails the Occam's razor test since I have not introduced any additional assumptions to meet observations. Shrinking simply replaces expanding in this supposition, unless someone can point to something else.

Update 3:

Anthony Stauffer,

Yes, the conventional view is of inter galactic or inter galactic-cluster space expanding. Space does appear not to be expanding within gravitationally bound systems of galaxies and galactic clusters. This state could have come about in much the same way with a shrinking matter universe. Gravity would clump matter together to form low entropic regions leaving great voids of high entropic space in much the same way as if space is expanding. Space between gravitationally bound systems, space within electrically bound atoms and space within nuclear bound atomic nuclei, all the way down to subatomic particles and perhaps beyond, possibly shrinking to make observations on the grandest scale appear to be expanding.

Update 4:

Obviously a shrinking matter universe is a tongue-in-cheek idea, its purpose to introduce doubt in the conventional belief of expanding space and promote good scientific reason why it should not be a valid argument. Your phase space argument doesn't quite do it for me, perhaps you could elucidate.

Update 5:

zi_xin,

You say blue shift cannot be produced by shrinking particles and offer no explanation. Blue shift results as a consequence of a body approaching and the wavelength of the light it emits being compressed towards the blue end of the spectrum. With the scenario above, gravitational attraction which causes high velocities measurable by their blue shift, would remain active. As I said at the beginning, light and gravity would remain in the same observed relationship.

Update 6:

Red shift might be a consequence of; 1. gravitational stretching of light wavelengths radiated from the surface of a massive body; 2. the high recessional speed of a body 'through' space; or 3. space expanding between the body and observer; or 4. any combination of 1. 2 and 3.. In my suggestion 3. the expansion of space is replaced by 3. the shrinking of matter, and 1., 2. and 4. remain and are matched by a relative reduction in the four forces of nature resulting from the shrinking process.

Update 7:

Anthony Stauffer,

Your phrase 'proper red shift' opens a can of worms. I'm not so sure we have a full understanding of red shift, there have been so many scientific papers on this subject, one suggesting a static universe and red shift as a consequence of a variation in the speed of light caused by changes in the zero point vacuum energy of space itself. As for particles shrinking until they reach their Schwarzschild radius; well if that could happen it would be billion years from now, and it would perhaps be no worse than the heat death of an ever expanding universe. Too many variables; I would say the same number, and simply a different perspective on why reality behaves in the way it does.

Update 8:

Anthony, many thanks for the additional contribution.

9 Answers

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  • Anonymous
    10 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    I would say that it depends on the relativity of entropy. Down to the basic idea, entropy says that your regions of phase space will grow by exponential factors as a system makes its way through time, which is why entropy is a logarithmic value. The current expansion of space I don't believe shows an exponential growth, and therefore, shrinking matter at the same rate would not provide an exponential value of shrinkage. But here we are speaking of real space and not phase space.

    My only other thought on the matter would be the effects. Expansion of space seems to have its most potent effect outside of 1 billion light-years, outside of the reach of galactic nodes and filaments. Within these structures dark matter and gravity still hold sway. In the case of shrinking matter, the effect of spatial expansion would be on a more localized scale.

    Those are my thoughts, but I like your question. Well thought out.

    Rethinking this, and you make very valid points, I will let go of the phase space idea (which is simply a way to deescribe the macrostates of a system, typically by position and momentum) as it provides no real disproof of your theory. Again, I find your idea interesting, and I'm not looking to shoot it down, I just like the experience of thinking out-of-the-box. I have a knew thought. I think shrinking matter has too many variables. You have to account for too many fundamental particles, or superstrings, or branes (whichever theory you suscribe to) and their time-dependent changes. The mass of each particle must change in order for the change to go unnoticed, not just the spatial dimensions. And the shrinking would itself have to be variable to account for the proper observed redshifts. Additonally, we must reach a point at some time in the future where all subatomic particles would reach their Schwarzchild radius and ultimately collapse. I'm more apt to believe an expanding space theory, where space is the only variable. Occam's razor, between a system of multiple variables and a single variable system, the single variable system would tend to be the correct one. Of course, I am by no means an expert. But that is where my logic takes me.

  • 10 years ago

    We detect the expansion of the universe by measuring the doppler shift.

    The Doppler Shift occurs when an object moving toward or away from you shifts the wavelength or Light and Sound, since sound does not travel in space we measure the shift in light, An object that is moving away from you shifts light to the Red end of the spectrum AKA red Shift and appears to have a a red like sheen to it.

    Almost every observable object in space has a detectable red shift, from this we can tell that Space is expanding.

    If matter were shrinking we could quite easily measure and notice it by observing atoms on Earth. And no such observation has ever reported atoms as shrinking.

    Yes it would fail the Occam's Razor test because your theory is far more complicated than accepting the Universe is expanding because we see things moving away from us.

  • 10 years ago

    There are always possible alternative theories put forward in virtually all aspects of science, and for different reasons.

    However the test of any theory is whether it can stand up to observation and/or experiment. The "big bang" theory about the origin of the Universe has stood the test of time because many of its predictions have been consistent with ever more stringent observations. It is also in agreement with the General Theory of Relativity which remains one of the most successful theories of all time.

    Science would be boring if no alternative ideas were ever put forward for well established theories. We can never say we actually "know" anything, and challenging alternative ideas is what pushes science forward.

  • scowie
    Lv 6
    10 years ago

    There IS an alternative, but you'd be better off discarding those 3 theories to begin with...

    It is possible that space isnt expanding and the redshifts of distant galaxies have another cause: energy loss to gases in the intergalactic medium.

    I recommend you watch this documentary which highlights evidence of non-doppler redshifts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yTfRy0LTD0&playnex...

    This one explains how a static (non-expanding/contracting) universe is possible:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4773590301...

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  • 10 years ago

    If galaxies are end stages in the evolution of the universe and they were in a state of accelerated collapse they would indicate a universe in a state of accelerated expansion,which is impossible.

  • Anonymous
    10 years ago

    The alternative has been called the steady state universe theory for quite some time.

  • zi_xin
    Lv 5
    10 years ago

    The expansion of space was determined by the blue shift we see in their spectrum. This shift cannot be produced by shrinking particles.

  • 10 years ago

    There are probably alternatives, but it is not all who will accept having an alternative.

    Some people want to be quite safe - that is: please only one explanation on each problem.

    They just will get confused handling more than one alternative.

  • 10 years ago

    you will have to write this one out , here we go: h squared= 8 pie g over 3 infinity(1-p over pc) . problem solved.... hope that makes sense.

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