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Bob Klein asked in SportsMartial Arts · 10 years ago

Are traditional martial arts dead?

With Tai-chi Push Hands turning into competition push hands (which is just pushing and shoving) and traditional styles turning into MMA, which is more like a fight club, with the attention span of people down to just a few seconds, is the rigorous and detailed training of traditional martial arts a thing of the past?

I have seen my own art, Tai-chi-Chuan degraded to the point where there are people here on Long Island who have never even taken a class in this art, who are teaching it. They just make things up.

The training of chi-gung is ridiculed because practitioners don't want to bother to go through the intense training for chi development and so it is easier to just say there is no such energy as chi.

Is this the era of lazy martial arts - lots of huffing and puffing but very little specific learning of basic mechanics of mind and body?

22 Answers

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  • Anonymous
    10 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    No, I don't think so. It's only the case that martial arts are a popular fad now, maybe because of UFC, so a lot of people who wouldn't notice them if they weren't a fad want to join the fun, but they don't have very much ability for them and can't see some people involved in them are frauds. There are good and bad kinds of anything you can name. There have always been frauds, and there always will be. When there's a surge of popularity of anything, it invites frauds to try to con people using whatever is popular now. There have been surges of popularity of martial arts. Mas Oyama made Karate popular a while in the 1950s, Bruce Lee did in with Wu Shu the 1970s, and now UFC is doing it. popularity will soon wane, as it did before, because most people are lazy and have no potential to learn martial arts very well. Then, the same kind of serious people will be practicing it like they have always done and not noticing fads. You should look at the best, not the worst, in this instance.

    EDIT- What kind of Sensei plots with other people to threaten and harass a lady for any reason? A couple of years ago, I asked a question about stars of Chinese martial arts movies my friends own. An arrogant man didn't try to answer my question but handed me some Wikipedia-type reviews of such movies and said my friends Kyojin and Hiroshi had bad taste, but Kyojin owns websites about it. My insulted friends reported this man, so he got a violation. Then, he blamed me for his own folly, so he and a pal harassed and threatened me when I asked about stars of Japanese martial arts movies. I see my question about Chinese stars has been removed, so this man is surely responsible. That is conspiracy to deny my freedom of speech. I saw some messages today that told me this man has been saying I'm talking about him. How can I be doing that, when I can prove I didn't use a computer for 7 or 8 months, and I use it about once a month now? If he's telling lies about me, I have a right to tell the truth of the matter. The two men who harassed me were then called "Sensei Scandal" and "Katana 172 Version 3". Now, I see Sensei Scandal is "Daoshi". He should let well enough alone. As a Christian, I try to forgive and forget, but anyone must stop sins and crimes.

  • Anonymous
    10 years ago

    Absolutely NOT!

    Traditional martial arts are very much alive but there are also a lot of people out to make a quick buck who teach a bunch of crap and pass it off as a martial art.

    The old proverb is more applicable to the Martial Arts than it ever was before:

    Caveat Emptor!

    (Let the buyer beware!)

    As a fellow practitioner of Tai Chi Chuan, I suggest that you find yourself a non-profit school that teaches Tai Chi Chuan for the love of the martial art rather than to make a profit.

    e.g.; Where I learn Tai Chi Chuan: http://www.rtccc.com/

  • Anonymous
    10 years ago

    If Tai Chi Push Hand in Competitions now is different from Traditional MA, what is the point on commenting one with the other?

    If Traditional Tai Chi is a better art for self defense, or fight, it is no harm to compete in the push hand competitions.

    You have asked a good question:

    What traditional Tai Chi cannot do?

    Source(s): Ziboce.com
  • 10 years ago

    No, not really.

    But as with any ART form, serious, dedicated practitioners are relatively rare. My wife can make extremely gorgeous, painting-like drawings using ordinary colored pencils; on the other hand most people regard colored pencils as non-serious art for little kids.

    Same thing with martial arts. Mainstream practitioners are mostly hobbyists; while those that can be considered true artisans are rare.

    ADDED:

    You also need to remember that no martial art is presented as a finished product; they are and will keep on evolving. That's also why we see evolutionary branches that focus on sport, health and exercise, or pure competition. And personally, if some people want to do taebo, kardio karate, or any other "lazy martial art" as you put it, I'm not going to get in their way. To each their own.

    I like to believe that I'm practicing something that's actually "martial" - but I don't think it's right to assume that I'm better because of it. Heck, for all I know, all the samurai, knights, and other historical warrior classes might frown heavily on even the best old-school dojos of today.

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  • Anonymous
    5 years ago

    Yes. Traditional ethnics are definitely declining. But the thing about the teachers insisting on the use of rank and titles, that is because of the decline in traditional ethnics IN THE STUDENTS because students nowadays don't know how to call you "sifu" or "guru" or "sensei" or whatever you should be called. People last time knew how to call their instructors by the title immediately, but people nowadays hardly have the courtesy to call you by your title. The insisting on the use of ranks or titles is a step to bring traditional martial art ethnics back into martial arts, where the instructor is the highest in the class and the students have to follow. Nowadays its usually the opposite. By the way, Sun Tzu is not a martial artist.

  • 10 years ago

    I don't think they are dead but I do think the "golden age" for them has past now. That does not mean that they will eventually die out entirely though. There are still quite a few people who train, study, and do traditional martial arts. I do think though that the quality of students and many of the programs out there have been watered down quite a lot due to cultural and economic influences as well as maybe the greed of some unscrupulous instructors.

    Its hard to find a student who will come four to five times per week anymore and really work hard and dedicate themselves to learning and studying martial arts. Many don't have the time or want to take the time to and/or make the sacrifices and instead are satisfied with something less. At the same time many instructors are happy that such students only show up twice per week; its one less student for them to worry about and teach.

    In some ways it is like the health clubs-if every member showed up at the same time, the same night they could not even get into the parking lot. Health clubs love to have several hundred people signed to contracts and paying but don't want them all showing up at the same time. The cost of maintaining a place to teach is getting more expensive every year while the time, energy, and commitment of those students has decreased for the most part.

    You also have a second and third generation now of instructors out there teaching and coaching that got water-down versions of what I had. This in turn waters things down even more and has snowballed to the current state of affairs in martial arts. I saw this coming and predicted it twenty years ago and I daresay some of the other old timers in this forum probably did also which is why some of them are as outspoken as they are about some things and their approach to testing, promotions, standards and what not. The example you use is an old training exercise that was used for developing your skills and senses for thousands of years. It does not surprise me that it would be misused and misunderstood by those that study now given the watered down version that many of them have received.

    As I see it you can go the way that many are already going because of this or you can decide and determine for yourself that you won't. There are some out there that have kept to higher standards as well as still set a course towards the serious studying of martial arts and won't deviate from that. That is the course I have set for myself and it does not matter if I have fifty or five hundred students and fighters or none. I had decided long ago that my skill, knowledge, and ability should establish and set the level of my martial arts and that can be done irregardless of those around me or their approach or lack thereof. There is also little to be gained by worrying about those that don't take the same approach as me so I really don't worry about them to any extent.

  • 10 years ago

    MMA training is rigorous and detailed.

    But besides that, considering that MMA gyms are outnumbered by so-called "traditional" martial arts schools, no, it's safe to say they're not dying.

    Anyone who wants to be good at anything, including martial arts, will have to stick with it. Of course, not everyone who joins a martial arts school will be interested at being good at their chosen art. Most, in fact, won't. This has less to do with modern times and more to do with the Pareto Principle, discovered over 100 years ago (making it older than many "traditional" martial arts, actually) which can be paraphrased as 20% of the people doing 80% of the work. That's the way it's always been. Only a relatively small number of martial artists will be obsessive over their martial art. Everyone else learns a few moves and quits of stops developing.

  • Lycann
    Lv 6
    10 years ago

    Things seem to move is cycles. All the crap out there will likely remain because, as you have said, there is a market for it. Legitimate traditional schools will likely start to rise in numbers though to meet the demand from all the people who have started MMA but for one reason or another have found their way back to the higher level teaching of traditional arts.

    I could be way off on that though, predicting the future is funny that way.

    Either way, traditional schools are out there if you look. The average person isn't interested in learning the way traditional martial arts are taught and would rather jump right in with MMA style training.

  • 10 years ago

    Tai Chi has a sport? Holy crap thats news to me. No really, if they do have a sport then that is really new to me.

    Qi-Gong is a very important part of Shaolin martial arts but not overall martial arts in general.

    "Traditional" Martial arts are far from dead. In fact, the top Sports fighters are practitioners of systems such as Karate, Taekwondo and Muay Thai. Even actors like Wesley Snipes, Jet Li, Jason Statham and more practice Martial arts. Those three in particular practiced Shotokan and Wushu.

  • CTC
    Lv 7
    10 years ago

    Well its nothing new. Taijiquan IS the most McDojoed MA in the world. I met a couple of "Sifus" in Hong Kong that have been teaching for years and dont even have a basic understanding of the MA. They kept inviting my Sifu to lunch and trying to get him drunk to have him explain some basics to them. People are lazy and watch too many movies. They expect results overnight or in a few weeks like in the Karate Kid. They dont understand that it takes time to develop the strength and flexibility before u can move forward. They watch movies and tv and get the idea that Chi is something supernatural or something.

    I agree with ur opinion but we cant do anything about others being lazy.

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