Is Thursday night going to be the 'eye of the storm', spiritually speaking? We've been buffeted and blasted...?

My parents became Witnesses in the 1930's and they believed they would still be alive when Armageddon came. They died disappointed. Contrary to all the hype, nothing happened after October 1975 and the century passed without the "work" having been completed. Jehovah's Witnesses have been anticipating Armageddon since well before 1914. Come 2014 it will be 100 years overdue according to their "new light." Russell has been discredited, didn't you know? They have rejected his calculations about 1874.

With regard to the annual head-count of non-participants on Thursday evening, that merely proves how many of them are not in the new covenant, that their sins have not been forgiven. What is the point in remembering the death of Jesus when (a) they reject his physical resurrection (b) they say he has already come (in 1914) and (c) 99.9% of them have been excluded from the new covenant? Don't they believe the Bible when it says "Yet to ALL who receive him [Jesus], to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God... born of God" (John 1:12-13)? Who are they to say only 144,000 persons since the time of Jesus can become children of God or born of God? Jesus never said that. Jesus did not die only to atone for the sin of one man.

EDIT: Why is the number of the J.W. "anointed" still increasing when 1 February 1999 Watchtower confirmed that “This call was terminated between the years 1931-1935”? The official explanation is that some people who thought they had a heavenly calling were mistaken and so they had to be replaced. ���However, the number of genuine anointed ones who have become unfaithful is likely not large. On the other hand, as time has gone by, some Christians baptized after 1935 have had witness borne to them that they have the heavenly hope (Romans 8:16-17). Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.” (1 May 2007 Watchtower, page 31)

In 1935 there were 52,465 partakers (highest) and in 1994 there were 8,617 partakers (lowest). But in 2009 that number had increased to 10,857 partakers. Which means about 7.5 million Jehovah's Witnesses have been excluded from the new covenant. Because they are not born-again, they are quite right not to partake of the bread and wine. Their error is in believing only 144,000 persons since the time of Jesus can be born-again.

@ night-crawler: Eternal salvation does not depend upon being "technically correct" and the truth as taught by Jesus is that unless a person is born-again, they will not see the Kingdom of God.

The truth is that Russell founded the Bible Students and after Russell died in 1916, Rutherford wrested control to become the second president. Huge numbers of Bible Students left the organisation that became known as Jehovah's Witnesses (in 1931) but the "truth in the detail" is unpaletable - Rutherford wanted to found a publishing empire. That's one of the reasons the original Bible Students voted with their feet.

P.S. The "last days" started after Jesus Christ was resurrected. The suggestion Jesus Christ started reigning from heaven, invisibly, in 1914 is wishful thinking on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses. He is yet to return, and when he does, it will be in great power and glory, with all the angels (including Michael the archangel) and every eye will literally see him. Yes, we are in the "last days" but 1914 is a red herring, spiritually speaking.

Read about Noah.

He was given the warning about the Deluge 40 or 50 years before he happened. What were the people's response? Jesus says:

Matthew 24:36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

No doubt he was ridiculed and no doubt people told him "You are crazy, there is no destruction coming". For they took no note and continued with their lives. But it did come.

Read the account of Jerusalem. Prophecies also served to warn, advising when urgent action was needed. A forceful example of this is Jesus’ warning of Jerusalem’s coming destruction and the situation that would signal the time for his followers to flee from her to a place of safety. (Lu 19:41-44; 21:7-21). Again people did not listen. It was destroyed just as it was warned.

What about today? We are giving warnings, we are being ridiculed, and we are being told "It won't happen". What if we are right? Are you willing to take that risk? So what if you die and you don't see it happen? What have you lost? Birthdays? Easter? Immorality? Dishonesty?

I would rather die living a life approved by God with a hope that I would be resurrected after the destruction and know that I can finally say "We were right!"

How was it that Daniel at Dan.9:2,24-27; says the Messiah will come and

be cut off? Daniel was there year 3460 [606 BCE to see Judah king end].

He was there 73 years later, 533 BCE[ but the 490 years he gives, is to

end 3 1/2 years after Jesus has ascended]. The Gentiles get the kingdom

message, how is it the Jews were not aware of the time that Jesus would

come after Daniel?

We have had the KJV Bible 400 years, so that is how long the warning for

Armageddon has been available, same as the Old Testament gives time

for Jesus first coming. Daniel gives 2300 day years, when is that? He

gives 2500 day years when is that? He gives 2520 day years when is

that? WW1 was 2520th year to 2524th year after Daniel as it lasted 1260

days Rev.11:1-3, 12:6; or 42 months, or 3 1/2 years, Rev.13:1-10. Rev.13:

11-18; is WW2, 2544th year after Daniel to the 2551st, only place given

if any one wants to examine what happens in between the years Daniel

gives and put it with the scriptures. We are now 2618 years after Daniel

sees Judah king end, there will be no king until Jesus at his 2nd coming,

the KJV Bible was 303 years old at WW1, 98 years ago. Who knows

when and why Rev.12:3,4,7-12, happened, it is as important as the time

for Armageddon. What does the time in the bible mean anyway? Did

those of the Old Testament ignore it? Do religions ignore it? 1931 to

2012, Jehovah's Witnesses have only been called that for 81 years,

from 1870 to 1931, 61 years they were the International Bible Students.

Other religions that attempt the bible time has less Bible time than

Jehovah's Witnesses. If at year 4066, it was time for the New Testament

and that was 2012 years ago, we are each year more near to

Armageddon and the second coming of Christ Jesus than ever before,

but not close enough for, "millions now living [ in 1918 ] will never die,"

in 2012, if it is not bible scripture, it is not bible scripture. Bible students

should cling to bible scripture. So what religions has the best or the

worst before God, this near to the second coming of Christ Jesus.

Matt.24:3,7,14,15,21-24,36, God gives all time, but God alone knows

the day and the hour for Rev.20:1-6. When did Rev.12:3,4,7-12, happen,

if the world does not know when that happens, will they know when

Armageddon happens, I will not be here the last 50 years before Christ,

it is still to come, it is for those that know the scripture best of all. So

who will that be?

Greetings,

The real question is: "We are nearly a hundred years into the "last days" according to Christ's prophecy. At what point do non-believers start to think twice?" "How long do people need to "take note" of the obvious signs and accept the Scriptural warnings?"

2Pe 3:3-7; 2:9-19:

"For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation's beginning." "But these men, like unreasoning animals born naturally to be caught and destroyed, will, in the things of which they are ignorant and speak abusively, even suffer destruction in their own course of destruction."

Mt 24:38-39

"For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

1Th 5:1-9:

"You yourselves know quite well that Jehovah's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is that they are saying: "Peace and security!" then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape. But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves ...So, then, let us not sleep on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses."

It is also very clear that ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses can provide irrefutable evidence that they are the True Christian Congregation (Mt.7:21- 23; 1Cor. 6:9-11; 2Tim3:5; Gal.5:19-23). And the Bible clearly shows that ONLY those who are associated with the true Christian congregation will be saved.

When you examine most religions you find that they cannot meet the requirements of true Christianity. Their historical record is of bloodthirsty wars, immorality, sectarian violence and factional splits (Mat.7:21- 23; 2Tim3:5; Gal.5:19-23). Today Catholics continue to kill Catholics and Protestants kill Protestants, something true Christians would not do (1Jn.3:10,15; 4:8).

Today, religions have moved even further away from the Bible's requirements and teachings. Our hearts and the historical record tells us that any of these religions cannot possibly be trusted to be the channel of Biblical truth. The evidence is that only Jehovah's Witnesses can meet the Scriptural requirements of being the True Christian Congregation and "the pillar and support of Truth" (1Tim. 3:15).

Yours,

BAR-ANERGES

I think indirect is useful. Questions about Jesus, about various scriptures

about Jesus Christ are helpful. How? Well, the bible says 'they wrest the

scriptures', but some might not feel good doing that, some won't have

a problem.

But some will find themselves wondering. So any comments or

questions that bring about that wondering, and that not buying

the party line.

Matthew 5:3 blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

You might point out they don't want heaven and yet Yahweh word says this. And for the first 55 years of the organisations history they taught this.

Ask why they ignore passages Matthew 5:3,10, John14:1 to3, 17:24 2 Corinthians 5:1 to4 Philippians 3:20, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, 2 Thessalonian s 2:1, 2 Timothy 4:18 Hebrews 11:16 (the Jehovah s witnesses however teach that the Old Testament saints mentioned in this chapter will not go to heaven) And 1 peter 1:4

I hope I wrote that down correctly for you.

I will just add that Charles Taze Russell started his small bible study group in1872. 79 is the date given to the start of the movement.

I tell you this, the Word of God is true! Many will come and deceive and be deceived, because they love the lie. I have noticed that people will do anything but the right thing for their salvation and for God's Glory!

2 Timothy 3:13-15 - But evil men and seducers shall wax worse, deceiving, and being deceived

14) But you continue in the things which you have learned, and have been assured of, knowing by Who you have learned them;

15) And that from a child you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 4:3,4 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap upon themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Titus 2:12-13. . .It [The Grace Of GOD] educates us so that we can live sensible, ethical, and godly lives right now by rejecting ungodly lives and the desires of this world. At the same time we wait for the blessed hope [The Rapture/The return of the Lord can happen at any time] and the glorious appearance of our great God and savior Jesus Christ.

This is what born-again Christians are waiting for. It is our blessed hope that Jesus has given us. No wonder that Apostle Paul described the Lord's coming as the "blessed hope"

Yep, you're right Sasi. We will be fired-up, nothing different from how we usually are. And Armageddon is near, how close? We don't know. But just look around you, and you'll get a clue. And as for annual head-count, why not? We love for people to come, not only to the Memorial, but to any of our meetings. And many of us will not participate of the emblems, but we all benefit from the new covenant.

And I'm sure people can think up all sorts of stuff to say. Does it phase us? Has it ever? Will they change our mind? Will they get through to us with their false reasonings? Yes, we are hard-headed, for what's right.

Paisley Moon

"Any ideas of what we could say to show them that JWs have been claiming this for 130 years?"

Certainly not the truth, as they've only existed as JW's since July 1931, my maths make that 80 years and 9 months give or take a day or two not 130 years, so you may be on to a loser there, as no one would swallow that big a lie ;)

"Surviving Armageddon has got nothing to do with being in an annual head-count of non-participation in Jesus' covenant for a kingdom?"

Yeah just like surviving the flood had nothing to do with being in the ark, nice try but I'm not a good swimmer like you must be ;)

See you Friday ;D

@Sasi, No arguments there but you never said “origins” you said “JW's have been claiming this”, if there was no such group called JW's before 1931 how could they of regardless of their “origins” they never existed by that name.

What you said was technically incorrect, now if you had said the group now known as...... it would have been a different story.

It would be wise to remember an important lesson, truth is in the detail, sometimes people don't see truth because they take no note of the detail :)

@Sasi, The point stands regardless of what you feel, I've no argument about much of what you say but if you can't even except and admit that one truthful point and your error, and try and brush it aside what does this say about you and anything you have to say I wonder?.

I'll leave that for the readers to make up their own mind, thanks for your question though :)

I can only guess that as the number of "Glorious One's" diminish the closer they feel they are to the end times.

When they get reports in about 50 years that only about 100 of the remaining of the 144000 were able to partake of the emblems, they will then claim with much more certainty that the end is just around the corner.

While they have been doing this for over 130 years and in the past have even given dates for this event, today they have learnt that they were never correct before so they now just say "SOON".

Even the disciples 2000 years ago believed that the end would be soon, so we cannot knock them too much, although the disciples never predicted a date and never changed their teachings as the JW's have done time and time again.

Christ gave us a good example of what it will be like in just the birthing pangs well before the end and the JW's are translating these signs to be current and unique to today. Even if this was the situation, Christ was clear, there was still a lot more to come before the end time were upon us.

I predict that the end times will come as was written in the bible, "Like a thief in the night" and no one will be able to say look here, here is the Christ, invisible in heaven since 1914.

Will the invisible Christ partake of the emblems on Thursday night?