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Bases are loaded with 1 out. Batter hits a foul pop up which is caught by first?
base man. Runner on 3rd tags and scores before runner on first that does not tag is doubled up.
Umpire rules the that since it was a foul ball the ball is dead with batter out, runners return to bases and thus the run does not score and there is just two outs now with the bases loaded. What is correct rulling? Is this an application of the infield fly rule?
5 Answers
- FozzyLv 79 years agoFavorite Answer
Wow - there are so many wrong answers it;s tough to know where to start.
First off, how can an umpire possibly think a foul ball is dead?
Secondly, the infield fly applies only to FAIR balls, so don't even worry about it's interpretation on this case. (proper call by an umpire if a fly ball that meets the requirements of the infield fly rule is near the line is "infield fly if fair")
Thirdly, the runner going back to first base is NOT, a "force play". The definition of a forced runner is one who loses his right to a base because the hitter became a runner (in other words, hit a fair ball, got hit by a pitch, etc.). A runner needing to return to a base after a fly ball is caught is NEVER considered a force play.(The confusion lies probably because of the fact that the defense merely has to touch the base to get the out)
Since the runner on first was NOT forced out, the runner should count (the only time it wouldn't would be if the third out occurred BEFORE the runner crossed the plate.
Proper ruling would be inning over, run counts.
My suggestion is that the umpire actually OPEN his rule book once in a while.
- Anonymous9 years ago
Dawgdays and Fozzy are right, your umpire was dead wrong.
A caught foul ball is live, so runners can tag and advance at their own risk.
Infield fly rule ONLY applies to FAIR balls so its not a factor on this play. Even if the ball was fair and infield fly rule applied, its still a live ball and runner can attempt to advance at their own risk.
Most people know that a run cannot score if the 3rd out is made as a force out, but a lot of people don't understand the difference between a force out and an appeal play. A force out is one where a runner is forced to advance to a new base because the batter became a runner, therefore its is only a force out if the runner is going FOWARD to the next base. Returning to a base is never a force out.
In the case where a runner is returning to tag-up after a caught fly ball, its considered an appeal play. Since this is NOT a force out, runs can score on the play as long as they cross the plate before the 3rd out is made.
The confusion between force outs and appeal outs comes because in both cases the defense can simply touch the base, rather than tagging the runner. The important thing to understand is that a force out is when a runner is required to move forward to the next base, NOT when he's required to go back to a base he was already at.
- dawgdaysLv 79 years ago
Your umpire is wrong. So wrong that you really need a better umpire, since this is dealing with fair/foul and live/dead which are really basic rules. If he doesn't know this, I have a hard time calling him an umpire.
A caught foul fly is still live. An uncaught foul ball is dead per rule 5.09(e), but there is no part of 5.09 that kills a caught foul fly. On a caught fly ball, runners may advance, but they have to tag up in order to avoid the potential of being put out on appeal.
If the runner from 3B scored before the runner at first was doubled off, then the run scores, per rule 4.09. The force out exception of 4.09(a) EXCEPTION does not apply because THIS IS NOT A FORCE! All forces are removed when the batter is put out on the catch, so appeal outs for failure to tag up are NEVER force outs, even though the out is made by tagging the base.
No, it is not an infield fly, since an infield fly situation requires runners at first and second, or first, second, and third with less than two out, and the batted ball has to be in fair territory. See rule 2.00 INFIELD FLY. But even if it was an infield fly, the ball still isn't dead, and the runner may still tag and advance.
Oh, yeah, the ruling is - three outs, run scores.
[Sorry for all the edits. I missed that there was a runner on 3B who scored, and I wanted to add the rule references.]
- ?Lv 79 years ago
Your umpire is wrong. A batter can tag up with less than two out even if the catch is made in foul territory. In your scenario the run should be counted.
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- 18 gibbs 20Lv 79 years ago
Dawgdays has it nailed. He even gave you the rule book references. Give him the best answer. he earned it.