Don't you just hate it when ...?

There's a Zen story about a Buddhist scholar and a Zen Master. The scholar had an extensive background in Buddhist Studies and was an expert on the Nirvana Sutra. He came to study with the master and after making the customary bows, asked her to teach him Zen. Then, he began to talk about his extensive doctrinal background and rambled on and on about the many sutras he had studied.

The master listened patiently and then began to make tea. When it was ready, she poured the tea into the scholar's cup until it began to overflow and run all over the floor. The scholar saw what was happening and shouted, "Stop, stop! The cup is full; you can't get anymore in."

The master stopped pouring and said: "You are like this cup; you are full of ideas about Buddha's Way. You come and ask for teaching, but your cup is full; I can't put anything in. Before I can teach you, you'll have to empty your cup."

This is one of my favorite stories and a personal philosophy of mine. I feel it fits this scenario. The people you are talking about come in thinking that their photography is awesome, and that they already know everything they need to know. What you say them them falls in deaf ears if it isn't completely positive.

A psychological phenomena called confirmation bias is probably also at play here. If people have a certain opinion/perspective (in this case, the belief that they're awesome at photography), they will automatically look for things that support this, while dismissing what doesn't.

It's useless to try and teach people like that, because even if they say they want to learn, they can't because they are too caught up in their own opinions to take in what others are trying to teach them.

Also, I just feel this should be said, it's not strictly just a teenager thing either. I feel it depends on the maturity, skill, and dedication of the "photographer" in question. Admittedly, most teenagers are lacking in those areas however, so more often then not they display those tendencies. I have seen some adults act this way though. There was this girl in her mid twenties on here not too long ago asking for some critiques on her photography portfolio. She was decent, but there were a few mistakes that even I could pick out. As soon as she started getting some criticism though she immediately deleted the question, then reposted it again a few minutes later, adding the phrase "don't comment if you're just jealous". That question too was deleted as soon as the criticism started again.

I started out that way too (though I wasn't quite as extreme as that last example), I first started taking an interest in photography when I was 13. I had no clue as to what I was doing and thought that having a DSLR set to auto automatically made me awesome. I had posted some of my picture here to Yahoo! Answers expecting rave reviews. I was surprised at some of the criticism, but quickly just brushed it off, those critiques went over my head because I didn't understand what a good photograph was. I remember looking at one of the reviews and thinking "what does lighting have to do with photography?" lol.

I'm still a teenager, 17 years old, but after studying photography for 4 years and taking formal classes, I now know a little better. I have a whole different perspective. I've looked back at my old pictures and can now see that those "negative reviews" were dead on.

Forget Best Answer - I"m tired of being called a moron, retard (which should be in the same category as the n-word, the f-word, really a nasty term), told I don't understand photography when I've been doing this for much longer than the asker has been alive because I dare suggest they READ the manual, take the camera off of auto, look at other work to get an idea of aesthetic concepts.

Another one I just encountered: no critique please, just insight. Umm, aren't they the same thing?

As to the thumbs down b.s.: I ignore 1 thumb down, I have my own personal troll. What an idiot - someone actually takes the time to find my answers. When I get more than one however, I look to see if I misread the question or somehow missed the pertinent details (Rebel t3 vs. t3i ? not long ago), miswrote or poorly worded my answer, or edited the correct info right out of the answer. This has been known to happen. If none of these are true, then its the trolls. They have been particularly active lately. I think they are really sad people who can't do this, so they take their spleen out on those of us who can.

I have to add something here though: on a Why are Wedding Photogs so expensive question, I wrote out a long, polite explanation of why a pro is worth the money. I got 19 thumbs up-thank you guys very much - and two down, but the votes went to an insipid answer with 2 whole votes. I realized that we have to vote on the answers - or morons will get the best answer. Up until then I didn't vote on the answers. So daily I go in and vote on 5 questions which I did not answer. I read all of them, and vote on the one I feel is "best" - regardless of who may have given the answer (sometimes I remember who said what). My personal feelings have nothing to do with it - the answer that is the most correct or appropriate gets the vote.

I totally agree with you on this ... it's absolutely madening ... you take the time to help these people improve and they ignore it just to choose the answer that gives them the biggest EGO boost.

I answered a question last week ... the original poster specifically asked us to be harsh and the chose the softest, most useless answer I had ever read.

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ak...

The answer actually had 6 "thumbs DOWN" and not a single "thumbs up".

It's this whole "no child left behind" crap ... Teachers aren't really allowed to let kids fail, sports clubs have started dropping throphies and medals ...

No fail policy:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518101,00.html

No more throphies:

http://blogs.canoe.ca/lilleyspad/general/no-more-w...

Yahoo is joining that bandwaggon ... at home, under Google Chrome, I now see 4 "thumbs up" options: funny, informative, agree and something else ... I don't have a "thumbs down" option available anymore ... no more telling people that their answers are ridiculous (not that I ever made heavy use of it but some answers are so ridiculous ...)

I don't bother answering critique questions anymore, same with the "how much should I charge" questions ... people don;t like to be told what it really costs to run a business or what the risks are.

EDIT: Joe...

It's not so much about recognition ... if the person would choose another inteligent answer, I wouldn't have a problem with that at all but when they choose an answer that ha no merit or even any basis in reality then I get annoyed. Heck, I regularly vote for answers other than my own when i think the answer has more merit than mine.

**Sorry for the long rant...sore subject with me**

The problem is that the past several generation of kids has been raised by "Dr. Spock" methodology which includes way too much mollycoddling and not teaching "common sense".

Kids have not learned to handle constructive criticism due to the "Everyone is a winner" ego-boosting reach-arounds that has become "the norm".

Seriously...what are schools/parents teaching kids with "We don't keep score during sports, because there are no losers" and every kid qualifies for the "honor roll" bumper sticker just for attending school daily?!?! Sure, all the way up to second grade, all the "artwork" I did was praised and hung on the refrigerator. BUT, after that I was given constructive criticism and encouraged in ways to improve.

Some examples of "tender feelings" due to a lack of learning to build a "thick skin":

1) In college no less, a guy got his first math exam back and wanted to know why he got a "F -25". The professor explained that he got every answer wrong AND misspelled his own name. The guy got upset and walked out angry.

2) At a business meeting, a "girl" did a power point presentation that was filled with "text/Leet" speak. When she was constantly questioned on "what does ____mean?" and "That doesn't make sense. Can you explain it?"...she ran out of the room in tears and later quit.

So if I answer "Yeah Edwin, I totally agree, yeah, you're so right, you said it flawlessly, " would you pick my answer as the best?

Hahah, just kidding. Teenaged "photographers" post their over-saturated over-processed snapshots on tumblr & facebook and all of their friends say "wow, you're so talented, OMG" and "Wow, do you own a Cannon or a Nixin?" So that makes the "photographers" think their work is even better.

People would be much better off if they learned how to accept criticism (in general, not just about photography.)

What bothers me more than criticism questions are questions like "I'm shooting a wedding tomorrow, what do I need to do?" and "What professional camera should I buy?"

And before anybody calls me a crabby old man, I'll say this - I'm a lot younger than you think.

Eh, I always wonder if they even read all the answers. The question Eric refers to was reposted in the style and beauty category with the note that she didn't want photographer's opinions on her work. I suppose that means she just wanted gushers.

There are a few who are able to listen without taking any criticism as a personal assault. Several I have watched evolve from right here on Y!A.

The world needs MR. Spock, not Dr Spock!

While it's nice to be recognized as giving a valuable answer, I don't go on here for the recognition. If I can help somebody out, that's my source of satisfaction. So it doesn't bother me too much when somebody else gets best answer. It does bother me a bit when the best answer is demonstrably wrong. But what are you going to do? I don't usually answer the "rate my photos" questions. Too little time.

Some people want to have confetti thrown at them and some want advise. The pictures they show are a good indicator of whether or not it is worth the time to give advice.

Teen age years are times of insecurity and the need to fit in. Very few are mature enough to comprehend the value of an impartial critique. Don't give up, because there are always a few gems to be cultivated. I have personally seen it here on YA.

You are right. And in Facebook groups is the same, people ask for criticism but cannot deal with it.

In fact, all of them are just asking for people to tell them how great photographers they are, even if not.

-oOo-

Sorry for the bad english...