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Why do a lot of people think the Ancient Greeks and Romans looked Northern European?
They were native to Southern Europe and lived in a Mediterranean climate, and their paintings, sculptures, and mosaics always portray people who are usually dark-haired, dark-eyed and with typical Southern European facial features.
Many people like to say that modern Italians and Greeks are darker than the ancients, but if anything it's actually the opposite. The subsequent invasions and migrations of Germanic tribes and other northern groups to Southern Europe during the Dark Ages and Middle Ages actually led to a somewhat greater frequency in lighter hair and eyes among Greeks and especially Italians. There were said to be Ancient Greeks and Romans with light hair and eyes, but they were a minority.
@Ann: Thanks a lot for all that information! Yes, modern Europeans descend from multiple waves of migrations into Europe going back to roughly 50,000 years ago. Paleolithic people, Neolithic migrants from the Near East, Black Sea migrants who are said to have had the trait for light eyes, Indo-Europeans, and others.
Regarding Italians, that's about right. Going by experience, I'd say that nearly 1/3 of Italians have light eyes, a trait that would've certainly been present in Roman Italy considering that it was a minority trait among the Romans/Italic tribes and Greeks in southern Italy, and even more so among the Celts/Gauls who had settled in northern Italy, and which became more common after Germanic tribes, Normans, Austrians, and others had settled in various parts of Italy.
I'm American and primarily of Italian descent (Sicilian and Tuscan) and have several light-eyed and even light-haired Italian relatives, from both the Sicilian and Tuscan sides. I hav
@C_Kayak: Regardless of what you might believe about me or the questions I ask, I happen to have an interest in history, anthropology, and the diverse peoples and cultures that comprise humanity. Quite frankly, I have also personally encountered a number of people who have tried to tell me or who believe, typically out of ignorance, the things that I ask about.
I'm genuinely curious as to why many people (who I have both personally encountered or who constantly depict historically inaccurate portrayals in movies and on television) are persistent in presenting a distorted or dishonest portrayal when there is so much factual evidence that contradicts such portrayals. It isn't even just inaccuracies regarding Greeks or Romans either, but also for example in old Westerns when they would have white actors with makeup and long hair or wigs depict Native Americans or having an African-American portray a Persian in the movie "Alexander."
If you don't like my quest
EDIT: If you don't like my questions, then simply ignore them or don't bother to answer. Nobody's forcing you. If you think my questions are disturbing, then you need to look around more and really be horrified by some of the questions that openly insult or denigrate other people and cultures. At least mine are civil for goodness sake. You strike me as someone who is either overly PC or who just simply hasn't witnessed or experienced the ignorance that I have.
4 Answers
- ?Lv 78 years agoFavorite Answer
Being an Italian who can't even tan and burns to a crisp, I looked into this once. I couldn't understand it. Supposedly since the 1800's and early 1900's, European scientists were kind of forced to claim Greece and Rome as northern European accomplishment and not Mediterranean ones. There was political pressure to do so. They also claimed ancient Egypt and went on to say that there also must have been an Aryan invasion migration into India.
In 1926, an archeologist found the remnants of pyramid in India. Europeans thought of anyone who was dark skinned as barbarians. They couldn't believe that India had been civilized in 3000 BC before ancient Greece. To them, ancient Greece was the beginning of civilization in Europe. Of course they came up with this whole Aryan white people thing. There is no such thing. Germans and Norwegians can be up to 30% Mediterranean and northern Italians up to 30% northern European.
However, they claimed that those super white Aryans must have lived in India, Egypt, Greece and Rome to create such greatness or so they theorized. They also claimed those people died out leaving Mediterraneans in their place. Arguments about all of this went on into Hitler's time. Mussolini was furious that Italians were being put into another European grouping, as being lower than 'Aryans'. Finally to get Mussolini in with Hitler, they had to admit Italians were white Europeans, even if we didn't have blond hair and blue eyes at the 80% level Swedes do. We have up to 30% blue eyes.
Today, we know the whole Aryan Invasion theories are not correct genetically nor through studying archeology. It was a racist theory. Unfortunately, there are people in India who still believe this and that has caused some people to discrimination against darker Indian people. Before the Europeans, they didn't think about it. Skin color was not important to their caste system. I have a very dark Indian brother in law who is in the high caste Brahmin group.
The lighter skinned Indians thought they were related to Europeans. Light skinned people came about all over the place, and Pakistan and northern India were one of these places with some input from southwestern Asians. Today, we know that Indians, no matter skin color, group with southwest and southeast Asians. Some might have 5% European ancestry due to mixing with the hunter gathers who would become the Europeans... north and south.
All Europeans are a mix of people who wandered into Europe between 10 and 50 thousand years ago. The blue eyed people actually come from the Black Sea area and are new comers to Europe. Hunter gathers from the north Caucus mountains came into Europe along with people from the northern Middle East known as the Fertile Crescent people. It was really the Fertile Crescent farmers 10,000 years ago that brought civilization to Europe and not the hunter gathers.
Romans most likely looked like the people in that area today. Even with invasions, it was not enough to change our genetics and got diluted. Our ancestry is old and is a combination of the hunter gathers and the farmers who came into Europe during different time periods. Blond hair and blue eyes must have been a trait that Scandinavians likes, so they bred for it. Most groups did not do that. Perhaps a small group from the Black Sea area went into Scandinavia and happened to have blue eyes.
I had DNA testing done, since everyone thinks Italians are Arab and Black. Well, I'm not. I had the first mtDNA that was European and that is U8. Out of 150,000 markers, I had no African marker or Arab markers in common with those people. However, real Arabs are the not the same as the northern Middle Eastern people or the 'stan' people. Scandinavians are half related to the 'stan' people mostly and southern Europeans half related to the fertile crescent farmers of 10,000 years ago. We have other DNA that is Levant and all Europeans have that at 17% of their genetics.
My ancestors were in Europe 50,000 years ago and that might explain why some Europeans keep the original look of brown hair and eyes that all Europeans had until 8000 years ago, when blue eyes spread from the Black Sea into Europe, the northern Middle East and northern Africa. I have great grandfathers who had blond hair and blue eyes. I was a blond child for a long time, but choose not to dye my hair blond any longer, like many women do in Europe.
- c_kayak_funLv 78 years ago
I've noticed your questions before and have one for you: Why do you find the persistent need to justify your own misperceptions by framing them as if they are common to other people? It is not true that "a lot of people think Ancient Romans and Greeks look Northern European". In fact, I doubt that thought occurs to anyone but yourself. Nor do "a lot of people" obsess about the arcane minutiae of "racial" origins and percieved physiological distinctions that perpetually concern you. A brief perusal of your "Questions" history reveals a disturbing pattern.
It appears that you concoct these fantasies as an excuse to post your own personal rants and theories about "racial" origins and national identities. Not that I really care, but at least be honest about your intentions and don't fabricate these "Why do a lot of people....." lead-ins. "A lot of people" don't. These are your personal quirks, not those of the rest of us.
- 4 years ago
Depending on my disposition (and there are many, just such as my personalities) I feel that heading from black hair to blonde is actually like- BAM! in your face, observe me- here I am, is this not the greatest thing you have ever seen.
- 4 years ago
The original people in Europe were Australian Aborigines or Australoid type, Europe was not populated 50,000 years ago more like 35,000 years ago, The Australian Aborigines are the oldest race and continuous culture date up to 70,000 years early skulls and specimen found in France are thought to have resembled The Bushmen the , But it seems more like Australoid types as Bushmen never left Africa, Only the Australoid did look up the Grimaldi Man and Chancelade Man.