Jehovah's Witnesses, Did angels exist prior to Jesus creating them? Please show scriptural proof.?

Micah 5:2 proves that Jesus' origins were much earlier than his human birth, and Isaiah 9:6 proves that Jesus, the Messiah, will be called "Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Psalm 102:25 tells us that it was the Lord God Almighty who laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of His hands. Yet Hebrews 1:10 (which is all about the Son of God) applies this scripture to Christ Jesus.

John 1:1-3 categorically proves that the prehuman Jesus was never created. "In the beginning was the Word... He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." In other words, in the beginning was the Word and God. There was also the Holy Spirit, because all three were there at creation. There were NO ANGELS prior to the Word - who became flesh and dwelt with us as Jesus.

Jesus is the Word incarnate. The Word himself was never created. "Without him nothing was made that has been made."

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jehovah God created an angel, then that angel created everything else. It's pure fiction.

Jehovah's Witnesses fail to understand the meaning of "only begotten" and "firstborn." It's all explained, from the Bible, in the links below. And, as others have pointed out, claiming that Jesus is Michael the archangel, that the premortal Jesus was himself created, is a form of Arianism.

LM

Colossians 1:15-17 says: He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.Trying to prove God's words to those who don't believe is like trying to put a camel through the eye of a needle. But for those who are seeking the truth, the Bible can prove itself by reading what it says. This scripture does prove God existed alone. Until He created Jesus there were no other angels before him.The Bible shows the 2 of them created everything else together.

Colossians 1:15,16: "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible."

Does that include the angels? Yes, of course it does.

Micah 5:2 does NOT show that Jesus [in his prehuman existence as the Word] had "no beginning" at all.

At least 27 Bible versions at:

http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Micah%205:2

translate the key words at Micah 5:2 as " whose origin is from of old, from ancient days, or "one whose origins are in the distant past."

Why would those translations deem it inappropriate to render it as you claim, "from everlasting"?

Which translation would appear more reliable? The one that seeks to justify Jesus as being God [or a person in a triune Godhead] or the translation that seeks to apply the intent of the Hebrew words, without bias?

If Jesus "had no beginning" as you assert, then the scripture I cited from Colossians would have to be wrong, as would Revelation 3:14, which reads, "And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God."

It would also make Proverbs 8:22,30 wrong where the Word [Jesus] unambiguously declares, "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker . . ." [And for any who unwisely try to claim that this is speaking about "wisdom personified" - how does that align with what is said in verse 30?]

Now, perhaps you may care to explain something to me.

How is Jesus God's "ONLY BEGOTTEN son" if he is uncreated? Is that, or is that not, how Jesus referred to himself at John 3:16,18? Why, yes, he did.

Why would he say such a thing about himself if he is the uncreated, co-eternal person in a Godhead?

Allow me to explain.

Go to: http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Job%2038:7

where the EXB, for example states: "while the morning stars sang together and all the angels [sons of god] shouted with joy?"

And that explains how Jesus is God's only begotten son. Because all the other angelic sons of God were created through Jesus [in his prehuman existence]. He is the only one directly created by Jehovah God himself, hence the "only begotten son."

Are you honestly able to say that my answer makes "no Biblical sense what so ever!"?

If so, I would appreciate your showing me exactly where and how that is the case.

Genesis states that in the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth. Did not exist before. His first creation was Jesus or as it calls him in Proverbs he is the Master Worker who created all things with God.

Who can answer God's questions?

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the

line upon it?

38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone

thereof; 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted

for joy?

ANGELS ARE SONS OF GOD[Rev.5:11, thousands, 1/3 are for Satan].

Job 2:2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves

before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the

LORD. Heb.1:1-13.

Angels are before Adam. Angels see Gen.1:2-35, then Gen.1:26, man/Adam.

Jesus as we know him, was the first heavenly creation by God, what was the name

of Jesus for 4064 years before born on earth?

WHY DOES MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL HAVE MORE POWER THAN CHRIST JESUS?

Is Michael the guardian angel of Jesus, with more power than Jesus?

Michael there at every major event, death of Moses, who is at the furnace of fire or with

Daniel? Who has more power than Gabiel?

Dan.8:6 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said,

Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. Dan.10:13,21. Who stands in the

time of the end[Michael of Dan.1:1-13; Who cast Satan out of heaven but Michael,

Rev.12:3,4,6, 7-12, to have his short time in the time of the end, while a place is

prepared in heaven for the heavenly, John 14:3,6. Now the holy angels only are with

Jesus, Matt.25:31-34.

Jesus said at John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent

me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Now at 1Thes.4:15-17, who has

the voice of the archangel?

Col.1:15, 16; Rev.1:1-3,5; Rev.3:14.

Jw's are bible students, they know what the bible says, Matt.28:18-20, they do not

say Michael has more power than Jesus, Jesus is the earthly name of

Christ[Emmanuel], Messiah. Michael was always his heavenly name, Rev.3:12,21;

it can change, 1Cor.15:22-28,51-53, who knows what it will be when his work is

done and all power given back to his God and Father, who name stays the same?

As with the visible creation, so also in the invisible realm there is order and rank among the angels. The foremost angel, both in power and authority, is Michael, the archangel. (Da 10:13, 21; 12:1; Jude 9; Re 12:7

Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael applied to God’s Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return. Michael is the only one said to be “the archangel,” meaning “chief angel,” or “principal angel.” The term occurs in the Bible only in the singular. This seems to imply that there is but one whom God has designated chief, or head, of the angelic host. At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 the voice of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ is described as being that of an archangel, suggesting that he is, in fact, himself the archangel.

JW's teach what the Bible says and practice it in their lives, unlike those who do not practice what they preach....that's why they do stand out as different from others just like Jesus, was he part of a Cult? read the definition of cult before you make judgments....

We know that John says in John 1:14 that Jesus, in his pre-human existence, was called the ONLY-BEGOTTEN son of God.

That puts Jesus/Michael in a special ONE OF A KIND category - ONLY-BEGOTTEN.

He was in existence before all other angels and was used as a special worker by Jehovah to create the angels after him. - Proverbs 8, Revelation 3:14.

God's Word the Bible clearly states it for itself. Please notice:

Proverbs 8:22 is him talking about himself being the "earliest" & "beginning" of his Father's achievements:

"Jehovah produced me as the *beginning* of his way,

The *earliest* of his achievements of long ago."

Colossians 1:15 calls him "the firstborn of all creation":

"He is the image of the invisible God, the *firstborn of all creation*."

Revelation 3:14 calls him "the beginning of the creation by God":

“To the angel of the congregation in Laodicea write:

These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness,

*the beginning of the creation by God*.”

So . . . You do not believe that God's Word makes Biblical sense . . . ?

Jesus was created before the other angels. Colosians 1:15, 16 says "he [Jesus] is the image of the invisible, the first born of all creation; for in him all things were created, both on heaven and on earth. " Jesus was born first, and then as the scripture shows, he helped to create the other angels and everything on earth.

Jesus was the first created being. Everything else was created through Jesus.

So no, there was nothing but Jesus and his God and Father Jehovah before anything else was created.