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Help concerning finding one of my UK ancestors?
Hello everyone,
I am using all the free resources I can find for the UK and it helped me a bit but I came to a stop point at the moment.
BENNETT Mary Ann, she married JAMES Francis John in 1860 at St. Philip And St. Jacob, Bristol, Gloucester, Eng.
On familysearch, it says that Mary Ann was born in Bristol in 1841 and that her father is Charles Bennett. I don't have much information about her right now. I've looked in censuses and various BMD sources but I can't find more about her or her father Charles ( now I wonder if it really was his complete name ).
I have more info about her husband though. Francis John ( sometimes Francis or Francis J ) was born in St(Mary, Pembroke, Pembrokeshire in 1838 ( at least his christening was on the 28th of May 1828 ) and he is the son of James and Susan James.
As to my sources, I use familysearch as well as the Free websites ( BMD, Cen and Reg ). Does anyone have more sources I could use ? I know I could go to ancestry or findmypast for example but yet I am not ready nor really can to afford a subscription.
As a foreigner I am not very good yet at UK research, it's very different from what I am use too for the moment :D
So thanks for reading me so far ;)
Good day all !
Thanks for your answers.
Wanderlust -- I did not know that the age was an estimation made by familysearch. I thought it was what was written in the record ( so yes still a possibility of mistake/wrong info given to the record writer of the time ). I found the place of birth in the 1861 cenus here http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
I know information can be wrong ( I often made the experience in my France research ) but I still take these as leads.
The Mary Ann Eliza you found could be a lead. I only was able to find one child of my Mary Ann and Francis, born in 1861 then nothing. So he could have died ( according to familysearch, there are several Francis/Francis John/J that died between 1860 and 1870 ) so she could have remarried. TThe Mary Ann Eliza you found was 31 years old when she married Mr.Waters so there could have been a previous union for her.
Bristol is not easy, it is where my British family is from and I have a hard time ( well in the UK in general I find it ha
Maxi -- Thank you as well for the info. I am sometimes confused by the UK record system and administration so any reminder is useful.
The two Mary Ann you gave are worth to be researched. I remember, when I started to briefly look for her to often see in familysearch a William Charles Bennett. It is worth to look further.
I am generally careful with records. Sometimes it is hard to do in the UK ( so yet none of my ancestors are clearly noted as * done * in my tree, even if they rarely all are ). I generally like to work with my :" 3 records for done " I do in other places. After three records confirming my information, I considerer a person as done and the info as trustworthy.
Thank you again ;) I'll consider what you gave as clues for the research.
Wanderlust -- One more thing I did not know, even if I could have considered it. Thank you for the clarification. In France, women are often ( at least after the Revolution when civil records appeared ) called by their maiden name. ( example : Jane Smith rightful wife of John Williams is the mother of Y Williams ).
But I think then I'll see if I find a Mary Ann James could have been married in these years. I still find strange that I could not find any other children of Francis and Mary Ann so he dying young could be a clue and the opportunity to more info on Mary Ann. Thank you ;)
Maxi -- I'll started to look through GENUKI. This is quite an interesting website as well as familytimeline, plenty of interesting links to other pages. I'll follow your advices Thank you again ;)
Furious Unicorn -- Thank you as well. In the 1871 census, the Louisa Lumber must be Louisa James, the daughter of Francis John, this is why I could not get my hands on her on the census if she was recorded under her step-father's name. I will check all the persons the census gives us and try to see who they really are once I have verified all my previous researches. THank you.
All your answers helped me well and I'll follow your advices. Since I can't decide, I let the voters choose a best answers. Thanks everyone and Happy Christmas !
5 Answers
- MaxiLv 77 years agoFavorite Answer
A Uk/Irish based website, so lots of links, BUT you will not find all you need online to prove ancestry simply as there are not records online to do so and that includes familysearch, ancestry and find my past or any other website ........... http://familytimeline.webs.com/apps/links/
Bear in mind that civil registration didn't begin until 1837 prior to that it is only PRs so after 1837 you have 2 potential records to seacrh for and cross reference, then the 1841 census although still limited as in 'it doesn't give relationship' (so you can't assume Charles is her father from the 1841, check the 1851 for relationships) or in the 1841 county of birth ( unless born in the country the census was taken in so just a yes in county or no, not born in county) so by then 3 potential records to cross reference to prove ancestry ( 2 primary and 1 secondary)
Add: just looking on freebmd there are 10 potential Mary Ann Bennett's born in Gloucestershire alone, any one of them could be your, or none of them
Add: In family search COLLECTIONS ( NOT RECORDS) it also has
Name: Mary Ann Bennett
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 21 Nov 1841
Christening Place: St. Philip and St. Jacob, Bristol, Gloucester, England
Father's Name: William Bennett
Mother's Name: Jane
and more COLLECTIONS...
Name: Mary Ann Bennett
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 2 Sep 1841
Christening Place: Stroud, Gloucester, England
Father's Name: Richard Bennett
Mother's Name: Harriett
Add: It is also worth noting that in the 1841 census ages were rounded up/down to the nearest five years, so the age you see is often not their real age, and many didn't know when they were born they guessed or the enumerator guessed
Add: Alister it is always difficult when you are not used to another countries record system, my advice to you is to go to the last person you have PROVED information about ( your x3 real records) before you jump to Mary Ann....then recheck/research again from them. Once you can PROVE a county in the UK, then check out GENUKI ( on the links page I gave you) that will give you lots of information, geography, history, records available and where they are and that may help you not only look at other availble records but also dates they are available.
The other advice would be to register with rootschat ( links page) which is a good, very active UK forum , free and with lots of knowledgable people who are often local to the area as i live there or have/are researching there, but bear in mind that you need to be factual, what records you have to prove ( not what you think) to get the best possible help....on there is also local websites to each county eg 'Gloucestershire Resources' suggest you post in Beginners unless you are 100% sure it is Gloucestershire either way you will get help and don't be worried about asking for cites as many people have their own personal scanned PRs and will often send you an image of the record you are looking for
- 7 years ago
Are you sure she was born in Bristol? And how sure are you about the year of birth?
I've found the marriage reference on FamilySearch, but it says nothing about her place of birth (British marriage records usually don't give places of birth, only place of residence at time of marriage), only that her father is Charles Bennett and that she was 19 at marriage (the 1841 date is an estimation by FamilySearch based on the age given, not a date given in the marriage register itself. Estimations are often wrong, people sometimes lie about their age and, as this a transcribed record, not one where you can view the actual document, you cannot rule out the possibility that the person who uploaded the data misread the age in the original document).
Unless you have other documentation (e.g. a later census after she was married) which gives her birthplace as Bristol, she could have been born anywhere.
Also please note that the Bristol Parish Records on Family Search are not a complete set - just because you can't find a Mary Ann Bennett baptised in Bristol at the right date doesn't mean there wasn't one - it could be that FamilySearch does not have the records of the church where she was christened.
I also have family in Bristol, but I have yet to find a good free website with Bristol records, I'm afraid.
I've found a Mary Ann Eliza Bennett, daughter of Charles and Elizabeth, baptised St Philip and Jacob, Bristol on the11th February 1838, but I don't think she can be your woman, as she appears to marry William Barber Waters in 1869.
ETA: Thanks for the further details.
British marriage records of this time typically give the bride's and groom's ages (and sometimes not even that if they are over 21 - it often just says "of full age"). They do not normally give year of birth. FamilySearch tends to "helpfully" add an estimation of birth year.
If Mary remarried, she would probably be listed in the marriage records under her first husband's surname (i.e. as Mary Ann James), not her maiden name. It is very rare for English married or widowed women at this time to be known by their maiden name. I wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of the woman who married William Barber Waters being your relative, but I would have thought it highly unlikely.
- ObserverLv 77 years ago
Instead of asking question so I can do research for you, I will suggest that you try going to a public library of Family Search Center. Some libraries have access to some of the British subscription sites. The Family Search Centers have access to 12 or 13 subscription sites at no cost to the patron as well as volunteers that can assist in research.
Source(s): Genealogical researcher 40+ years - Anonymous7 years ago
England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 about Mary Ann James
Name: Mary Ann James
[Mary Ann Bennett]
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1840
Age: 29
Father's Name: Charles Bennett
Spouse's Name: Solomon Lumber
Spouse's Age: 32
Spouse's Father's Name: Henry Lumber
Marriage Date: 21 Nov 1869
Marriage Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
----------------------------
1871 England Census about Mary Ann Lumber
Name: Mary Ann Lumber
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Soloman Lumber
Gender: Female
Where born: Bristol
Civil Parish: Westbury
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Registration District: Clifton
Sub-registration District: Westbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household Schedule Number: 36
Piece: 2567
Folio: 7
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Soloman Lumber 42 labourer b Bristol
Mary Ann Lumber 29
Louisa Lumber 9
Henry Lumber 7
Charles Lumber 4
Ada Lumber 3
Child 5 Hours
----------------------
1881 England Census about May A. Lumber
Name: May A. Lumber
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Solomon Lumber
Gender: Female
Where born: Temple Bristol
Civil Parish: Clifton
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: 16 Avon Square
Marital Status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View Image
Occupation: Boiler Maker Wife
Registration District: Barton Regis
Sub-registration District: Clifton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2479
Folio: 80
Page Number: 80
Household Members:
Name Age
Solomon Lumber 53
May A. Lumber 40
George Lumber 5
William Lumber 3
---------------------
1891 England Census about Mary A Lumber
Name: Mary A Lumber
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Soloman Lumber
Gender: Female
Where born: Temple Bristol
Civil Parish: Newton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
Town: Newton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View Image
Registration District: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration District: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3286
Folio: 109
Page Number: 61
Household Members:
Name Age
Soloman Lumber 62
Mary A Lumber 50
George Lumber 15
Polly James 2 grandchild
----------------------------
1911 England Census about Mary Ann Sumber
Name: Mary Ann Sumber
Age in 1911: 71
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation to Head: Mother
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: Newton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 331 Dukinfield Rd Hyde Cheshire
Marital Status: Widowed
Registration District: Ashton under Lyne
Registration District Number: 468
Sub-registration District: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Piece: 24401
Household Members:
Name Age
Ada Thompson 43 Head married 11 years
Mary Ann Sumber 71 Mother b Temple Parish Bristol
Polly James 22 daughter b Duckinfield Rd Hyde
William Affleck Thompson Son b Hyde
--------------------------
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Francis John James
Name: Francis John James
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1867
Age at Death: 29
Registration District: Clifton
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 85
Source(s): Ancestry.com