WoB

Psalm 82:1 . 82 God is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One; In the middle of the gods* he judges:

(Watchtower Library 2012) human judges are equal to angels?????

When you hit the *astrick*, your interpretation states:

*Or, “godlike ones.” Heb., ‘elo-him’;LXXV gc, “gods”; Sy, “angels”; T, “judges.”

So what about Psalm 8:5? Irrelevant???? LOL!

If the second elohim (אֱלהִים) of Psalm 82:1 refers to humans, then what happens when we substitute "humans" as a translation in other verses where elohim (or elim, the other plural for "gods") occurs in the plural?

Psalm 8:4-5

What is man, that you (GOD) art mindful of him? and the son of man, that you visit him? 5 For you (GOD) have made him (humanity) a little lower than the elohim (אֱלהִים or godlike ones) and have crowned him with glory and honor.

God made humanity a little lower than humans (godlike ones???)? Huh???

Psalm 86:8

Among the elohim (אֱלהִים) [there is] none like unto you, O Lord; neither [are there any works] like unto thy works.

Among humans (אֱלהִים) there is none like Yahweh, the Lord????

Exodus 15:11

Who [is] like unto you, O Lord, among the elim / gods (אֵלִם֙)? who [is] like you, glorious in holiness, fearful [in] praises, doing wonders?

Can you see Moses crying out and saying this after crossing the Red Sea? That Yahweh is greater than other men? The whole point is that Yahweh had defeated the gods of Egypt and was incomparable.

Psalm 89:6 (it's verse 7 in Hebrew)

For who in the heavens can be compared to the Lord? [who] among the sons of the elim / gods (אֵלִם֙) can be likened to the Lord? 7 God is greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones and to be revered by all [them that are] around him.

Does any of this make sense? Why the inconsistency in translation?

Watchtower 6/15/1953 pg 371

Though their annual periods were not calculated to the fraction of the day, there was no mistaking the seasons of the year, since Jehovah had said,

“While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.”—Gen. 1:14; 8:22, AS.

Bible Citation-Watchtower Library 2014

8:22 From now on, the earth will never cease to have seed-sowing and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, and day and night.”

The first one above (1953) mentions the word "While" (It is not saying the Earth will remain forever nor is it stating the Earth will be destroyed)

The second one mentions "From now on......" (your interpretation is making it sound like the Earth will remain forever)

Why did you change it???? From "While...." to "From now on...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGta4qIGVls

If your son or daughter were badly burned, he or she would require regular whole blood transfusions. As a good Jehovah's Witness, it is your duty to refuse this procedure and watch your child die instead. However, as a parent, this choice will be excruciatingly painful, and you would prefer to die instead. Well, WHY NOT die in his or her place? Surely, if you take the initiative to transfuse your child, Jehovah will not blame him or her. That would not be showing perfect justice. You and YOU ALONE will take the blame, and Jehovah will merely cut you off when the time comes. Isn't this better than watching your boy or girl take one for the team by making the ultimate sacrifice? Why not be brave and suffer the consequences instead? Perhaps Jehovah will see that you are showing pure, unselfish love and forgive this heroic action.

Psalm 82:1-8

Where in the Old Testament does Scripture teach that Jews or Jewish leaders were put in authority over the other nations? Were they separate from other nations? Didn't the covenant with Abraham presuppose this separation: if Israel was wholly devoted to Yahweh, other nations would be blessed (Gen. 12:1–3).

Psalm 89:5–7 -These verses contradict the notion of a divine council in which the elohim are humans.

Does Jehovah need to be protected by a zealous scribe***** (Masoretic Text) or anyone else?

Deuteronomy 32:8 is a textbook example of how later scribes sometimes changed the biblical text in a misguided attempt to “protect” God’s reputation. Deut 32:8, eliminates references to other divine beings (32:8, “sons of God”; 32:43, “heavenly ones” and “gods”). Also see Psalm 82: 5-7

*****This scribal practice of “protecting” God through textual changes is known as tiqqune sopherim (“emendations of the scribes”). See Emanuel Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1992), pgs. 264–269. ↩

Masoretic Text. The Hebrew Scriptures as traditionally received. The two oldest copies of it are the Aleppo Codex and the Leningrad Codex—ca. 10th century ad.

Septuagint. A Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. The oldest copies are in Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus—ca. 4th century ad.

Dead Sea Scrolls. Over 100,000 fragments of text, comprising more than 800 biblical and non-biblical manuscripts—ca. 250 BC–AD 70.

A motorcyclist lost his mom who was one of Jehovah's Witnesses. She had cancer, but would not accept the recommended treatments because they violated her religious principles. Then, his elderly dad died, probably of a broken heart after losing his wife. Finally, the motorcyclist lost concentration and was killed after flying off a familiar road, probably due to the emotional trauma of losing both parents in such a short amount of time. How would you explain that Jehovah is kind and loving, under these circumstances? BTW, this story is based on true events.

Please visit https://watchtowerofbabel.blogspot.com/2018/04/jeh... to see the details of this question. For some reason, I'm not able to post it here.

See Psalm 89 which is tied in with Psalm 82:6-7

Is the Hebrew Bible saying or suggests that there are a group of human judges in the heavens ruling with Yahweh over the nations?

Is Yahweh presiding over a council or group of human judges?

Why are you isolating Psalm 89 which states, “ 6 For who in the clouds ( בשחק ) can be compared to the LORD? Who among the sons of God/the gods ( בני אלים) is like the LORD,.......

Human judges in the clouds?

“Let’s allow the text say what it says; we have no reason to fear it”. Michael Heiser

If that were the case then you better change these passages as well- Acts 5:29; Gal. 4:8, 9; 1 Thess. 1:9; 4:1; 2 Thess. 1:8; Titus 3:8; Heb. 9:14.

"The notion that John 10:33 has Jesus only claiming to be a god (a la Mormon or Jehovah‟s Witness theology) is not tenable. A syntactical search of the Greek New Testament, however, reveals that the identical construction found in John 10:33 occurs elsewhere in contexts referring specifically to God the Father. The search is accomplished via the OpenText.org syntactically-tagged Greek New Testament database in the Libronix platform developed by Logos Bible Software. The search query asks for all clauses where the predicator of the clause can be any finite verb except εἰμί where the subject complement is the lexeme θεός with no definite article present. Any clause component can intervene between these two elements. Other than John 10:33, the following hits are yielded by the query: Acts 5:29; Gal. 4:8, 9; 1 Thess. 1:9; 4:1; 2 Thess. 1:8; Titus 3:8; Heb. 9:14. It is incoherent within the immediate and broader context of the book in which each passage hit occurs to translate θεός as “a god.”"-Dr Michael Heiser Article- "Should the Plural אלהיםof Psalm 82

Be Understood as Men or Divine Beings?"

Why is Jesus being charged with blasphemy if all He was saying (in a round about way) was “you mortal Jews get to call yourselves sons of God, so I can, too.” -John 10:34

If not, please explain? Why did the Watchtower Library 2012 translate Deut 32:43 using the LXX Bagster BUT did not use the same translation for Deut 32:8?

If you apply the same translation (angels of God) in Deuteronomy 32:43 to Deuteronomy 32:8 we have this: When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God." (See Bagster LXX Online)

Deut 32:8-Bagster LXX-ὅτε διεμέριζεν ὁ ὕψιστος ἔθνη ὡς διέσπειρεν υἱοὺς Αδαμ ἔστησεν ὅρια ἐθνῶν κατὰ ἀριθμὸν ἀγγέλων θεοῦ (angels of God)

*See Watchtower Library 2012*

(Deuteronomy 32:43) Be glad, YOU nations, with his people,*m (you have an asterisk and an "m") For he will avenge the blood of his servants, And he will pay back vengeance to his adversaries And will indeed make atonement for the ground of his people.”

(See Watchtower Library 2012)-Citation-m*“Be glad, O heavens, together with him, and let all the angels of God (ἄγγελοι Θεοῦ-angels of God) worship him. Be glad, you nations, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him,” LXXBagster. Compare Heb 1:6.

Deut 32:43 εὐφράνθητε, οὐρανοί, ἅμα αὐτῷ, καὶ προσκυνησάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες ἄγγελοι Θεοῦ· εὐφράνθητε, ἔθνη μετὰ τοῦ λαοῦ αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐνισχυσάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες υἱοὶ Θεοῦ· ὅτι τὸ αἷμα τῶν υἱῶν αὐτοῦ ἐκδικᾶται, καὶ ἐκδικήσει καὶ ἀνταποδώσει δίκην τοῖς ἐχθροῖς καὶ τοῖς μισοῦσιν ἀνταποδώσει, καὶ ἐκκαθαριεῖ Κύριος τὴν γῆν τοῦ λαοῦ αὐτοῦ.

If not, why are they derived from the same phrase? Why did the Watchtower Library 2012 translate Deut 32:43 (LXX Bagster) BUT did not use the same translation for Deut 32:8?

As you can see in my notes, It should be "angels of God" ἀγγέλων θεοῦ/ἄγγελοι Θεοῦ

(Deuteronomy 32:8) When the Most High gave the nations an inheritance, When he parted the sons of Adam from one another, He proceeded to fix the boundary of the peoples With regard for the number of the sons of Israel. (Masoretic Text)

Bagster LXX-ὅτε διεμέριζεν ὁ ὕψιστος ἔθνη ὡς διέσπειρεν υἱοὺς Αδαμ ἔστησεν ὅρια ἐθνῶν κατὰ ἀριθμὸν ἀγγέλων θεοῦ (angels of God)

*See Watchtower Library 2012*

(Deuteronomy 32:43) Be glad, YOU nations, with his people,*m (you have an asterisk and an "m") For he will avenge the blood of his servants, And he will pay back vengeance to his adversaries And will indeed make atonement for the ground of his people.”

m*“Be glad, O heavens, together with him, and let all the angels of God worship him. Be glad, you nations, with his people, and let all the sons of God (ἄγγελοι Θεοῦ-angels of God)) strengthen themselves in him,” LXXBagster. Compare Heb 1:6.

Deut 32:43 εὐφράνθητε, οὐρανοί, ἅμα αὐτῷ, καὶ προσκυνησάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες ἄγγελοι Θεοῦ· εὐφράνθητε, ἔθνη μετὰ τοῦ λαοῦ αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐνισχυσάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες υἱοὶ Θεοῦ· ὅτι τὸ αἷμα τῶν υἱῶν αὐτοῦ ἐκδικᾶται, καὶ ἐκδικήσει καὶ ἀνταποδώσει δίκην τοῖς ἐχθροῖς καὶ τοῖς μισοῦσιν ἀνταποδώσει, καὶ ἐκκαθαριεῖ Κύριος τὴν γῆν τοῦ λαοῦ αὐτοῦ.

Please provide passages from the HEBREW Bible. Thank you.

I thought Israel was separated from the nations to be God’s own possession and focus of his rule. How can it be that they ruled the earth?

"According to the context, those whom Jehovah called “gods” and “sons of the Most High” in this psalm were Israelite judges who had been practicing injustice, requiring that Jehovah himself now judge ‘in the middle of such gods.’

(Ps 82:1-6, 8)" Insight Volume 2 pg 1001

Since when do the corrupt decisions of a group of humans make

the foundations of the earth totter (Psalm 82:5)?

Perhaps we are referring to a different type of 'Sons of the Most High'? Divine? Elohim?

Please elaborate. Thank you.

If you say 'no' then why do you call these Sons of Elohim (the fallen procreators (gods) in Genesis) angelic sons?

Could you please cite specific Scriptures in the Bible that directly and unambiguously call created angels the Sons of God (Elohim)?

Please base your response on Scriptual fact from the Bible. Thank you.

Why are you isolating Psalm 82:6 and Psalm 89:6 in regards to the Elohim mentioned therein?

Psalm 82:6

“I [singular, referring to God] have said, You [plural pronoun] are gods [Elohim];

and all of you are children of the most High.”

Psalm 89:6

“For WHO in the heaven can be compared unto YHWH? WHO among the sons of

the mighty [sons of Elim, a contraction of Elohim] can be likened unto YHWH? El is

greatly to be feared in the assembly [Council] of the saints, and to be had in

reverence of all them that are about him. O YHWH Elohim of hosts, who is a

strong YAH like unto you? or to your faithfulness round about you?”

Since when were the human judges of Israel in charge of the nations (Earth)?

Please provide passages in the HEBREW BIBLE. Thank you.