Truth_Seeker

What about those of us that realize anything can be believed on faith? My burning bosoms have struck when self induced.. It feels good to read the Harry Potter and Lord of the Ring books and believe they are true too. So is this the devil making it feel good? How come stupid Elohim made it so easy for the devil to deceive? The devil deceived me in middle and high school when the seminary teacher told us my generation was extra valiant in the war in heaven and that my generation would be the the ones to prepare the world for the 2nd COMING of JESUS CHRIST.. Whooo burning bosom burning bosom burning bosom. Later to find out the official stance on the of the LDS church is this teaching IS NOT TRUE. Dang burning bosom kill. It's okay. I already figured out religion is fake.

So I want to say that if a god requires faith. And faith against evidence. Then this god is really freaking stupid to think a skeptical person would believe in it. Does this god want to share heaven with a bunch of suckers? I think I'd have a better time in outer darkness with all the skeptics. We could play marco polo or something.. haha.

A childhood friend of mine and I recently got together for a reunion. As time went by growing up around the ages of 19 we really didn't talk much. I was at the point of realizing that religions were all lacking enough evidence for me to believe in them. He on the other hand was gearing up to go on his mission. He always had a high and mighty attitude that he was so faithful and virtuous in the faith and he made sure we knew it. This attitude of his and my attitude of not believing at all definitely lead us down different paths in our life.

Well at this little get together we were at, he was pouring on his high and mighty attitude. Asserting that he was better than me in so many ways. It got to the point where I just couldn't hold my tongue anymore and I told him what I truly thought about him. I basically told him that I didn't see him as a person being honest with himself. I told him I thought he was a fool. I asked him what his evidence was for believing in the LDS dogma and I wasn't nice about it. Needless to say the reunion ended at that point.

A few months later he has called me. Sobbing... saying he's sorry for the way he acted and he knows I was right for telling him. He's done self realization and realized he believed because he was brought up to believe and he wanted to believe and that he was realizing how foolish was he for tricking himself. He wants to stop subjecting himself to the continuous religious indoctrination techniques of the church. But he doesn't know how to tell his religiously devout wife and their children. He want's to stop giving the church money but he doesn't want to lose his wife and children. He tells me he cringes deep in his heart every time he hears his wife rationalize events in their life and give credit to the church for their "blessings". He realizes he's worked for hard for the life they have and doesn't appreciate his wife dismissing it for her faith. But he loves her deeply. And doesn't want to lose her.

What advise can you give to help this guy be true to himself and break away from the chains he feels is the religion?

Olmec relics have been surfacing. If you don't know what I mean by Olmec please google it. Good research for you. Olmec predates Mayan, just FYI. No strawmen arguments please.

I always see LDS people say that if you are looking for information about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka: Mormons/LDS) Then you should only get information about them from them. But this goes against any critical thinking aspect.

For example: If someone has been accused of a crime. Or someone has been praised for doing something good. Would we only accept the testimony of the accused or the praised to find out of the accusation or praise is accurate?

Is god a Monotheist (meaning He has belief in a single god), Monotheist (meaning He has belief in several gods), or an Atheist (meaning He has no belief in any god)?

----Belief in one's self is not a form of theism----

Honest opinions please.

Is Elohim an Monotheist, Polytheist, or Atheist?

Please give it a minute of your thought based on your understanding of LDS theology and provide your honest opinion please.

I am not within the LDS social circle anymore. But when I was within that social circle the White Horse prophecy was discussed. This was back in the 1980's and 1990's that I was cognitive enough realize what they were talking about and still within that circle. I am estimated I heard this prophecy mentioned probably around 7-10 times a year. Now that there is an actual LDS presidential candidate in the making. How often do you hear it mentioned within your LDS social circle. And does it incline you to think the end is near.

Complete honesty appreciated.

They make accusations that I use faith all the time by saying I have faith that the light will turn on when I flip the switch. Or that my chair won't break when I sit in it.

Whole heatedly I do trust my chair won't break every time I sit in it. But if my chair ever did break it would lose the trust it had earned from all the previous times I sat in it.. Yet I can also prove that the light will turn on and I i prove that my chair wont break if I really felt so inclined.

I'm curious how you feel on this subject.. If Jesus Christ is proven to not have ever existed and is simply a myth. Does that mean Joseph Smith is a complete fraud as well? Meaning the LDS religion is false? Or does the prior not affect the latter? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Jesus Christo never existed. Although the lack of historical evidence for this character is only truly backed up by the 4 gospels of Luke, John, Paul, and Mathew. And those gospels didn't even take form for at least the year 100 AD doesn't mean the character Jesus Christ of Jesus of Nazareth never existed. It just means we don't have enough historical evidence to say he did being critically subjected. All that is beside the point. Just "IF" Jesus Christ is proven to be nothing more than a myth. What does that mean about the LDS religion???

By this I mean you can never lose an argument against a Christian claiming you are the incorrect church. This is of the assumption that the Biblical God is real. Can you truly put yourself outside the notion that the Biblical God does exist? Then everything leading up to that point of your belief has to be proven..

I find it absurd when other sects of the Christian Faith claim you are incorrect.. They have no ground to stand on. Their faith is no more correct than the LDS faith. They have to assume the bible is exactly what it claims to be... Yet they can't prove it. And there is abundant evidence to counter the claims made in the bible.

Speaking from the stance of having no presumption of any bible, prophets, or god(s). Then researching all of the facts (remember without the presumption that there is even a god to begin with) Looking at all of the discoveries we have made. Analyzing the Bible.. Analyzing the Book of Mormon. Can you explain how your religion is true?

Remember without the presumption that you already have. Please... give this an honest try.. It won't hurt your faith if you don't let it.. Just put yourself outside the this circular reasoning.

Good Luck

For example: Question: Where have you been? Answer 1 Not the full story 'I went to the store."

Answer 2 Full story" I went to the liquor store."

And if you agree that it is dishonest to omit truth.. Do you think the LDS church practices the omission of truth at all in what it teaches?

Personally I seriously doubt my parents and grandparents from both sides would not have been brought together if it wasn't for Joseph Smith. So I am very thankful his actions brought them together so I could be alive today... So... just wondering if the influence of the devil made me think of this question also.. mwahahahaha

For example: Martyrs in the Islam faith get paradise and 75 virgins. Others in the Islam faith get paradise still. Christians get paradise. Jewish get Paradise, Mormons, depending on how good they are can become godlike and reign over their own heavenly kingdom.

I am not stating there is no afterlife. I'll find that out for myself someday. All I am asking is it wrong for me to thing that the types of teachings these major religions propagate about afterlife is devaluing the life we have on this planet. Is it wrong that I think people in power use these teachings get people to go to war? And have been doing it for several thousand years?

Or have you just read the apologist side of the argument?

What I would like is for you to tell me that you have or intend to read it. Then tell me what in the book is false or misleading.

I am almost finding it 100% Anti-Constitutional to define a marriage between a man and a woman. In the essence of keeping the church and state separate.

For all you religious nuts out there that believe a marriage is defined between a man and a woman and trying to make that a law is completely backwards thinking.

A religion being separate from the State can decide who and who they will not marry. The government can not do anything about that and they never will. Marriage is sacred and spiritual and all those things you believe it is. But why on earth are you so concerned that same sex people are getting married. And mostly only for the financial benefits and other important benefits with no regard to religion. Can't all those who wish to define a marriage between a man and a woman let it be defined before your god.... And let marriage between anything else before the law be defined by the laws of the land?

I mean if God truly defines marriage between a man and a woman then in god's eyes even if these same sex couples do get married under the law it wouldn't be recognized by your god.. Correct? so stop worrying about it for American rights sake!

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Abraham_papyri_%2...

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

Please tell me a few reasons why one is more accurate over the other. And please state your reference.

Non-LDS you do the same. Completely open to anyone with any knowledge about the Book of Abraham in the LDS Religion

Do you think the consumption of anti-depressants in Utah and the population of LDS has anything in common?

http://en.fairmormon.org/Statistical_claims/LDS_us...

http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132

Here is the first snippet if your too lazy to read the whole section.

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

so greatly outweighed by the small amount of evidence that might supports it?

For example

DNA research has pretty much ruled out that the Native American Indians have any Hebrew/Jewish Ancestors. Now it isn't 100% conclusive as yes there is such a thing as Haplo group x that has a possibility of establishing a connection between Native Americans and 2000 year old Jewish ancestors. But it hasn't proven anything to support the Book of Mormon Claim. It just opens the door for the possibility.

So my question is not about the DNA, I am just using it as an example. Please counter my example with examples of your own that show where you have very significant but not entirely solid evidence to support the Book of Mormon claims and anti Mormons hold onto the little bit of possibility that it isn't good enough evidence to prove the Book of Mormon true. Now I really mean some significant evidence. Jeff Lindsay doesn't have any that would be published in any non Mormon history, anthropology, science, as all he has are hypothesis. Not even the LDS church will back up his theories.

So if you get the message no possibilities. STRONG Evidence to correlate the Book of Mormon stories. But keep in mind it doesn't have to be rock solid.

And verily I say unto you, let not the hearts of men inspire faith to guide you. From the dawn of human existence, faith has led them down billions of different paths. Faith can lead a man into righteousness, wickedness, and despair. Faith has been designed to take every man into the chains of ignorance. And so verily verily I say unto you, let knowledge be your guide. For knowledge has the only true alpha and omega. Knowledge is the beginning and the end. Only through knowledge will every man and woman be led to the same path. Knowledge will support you in your time of need and it will propel you to your times of success. Knowledge will free you from the shackles of religion. Knowledge will shield you from the deceit of those who misguide you. In the name of truth, evidence, and knowledge. Amen.

The idea that the Lamanites are among the ancestors of the Native American Indians?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science_and_environment...

Do any of you realize that DNA research is so advanced that if I had Asian ancestor over 4000 years ago and all the rest of my ancestors were northern European they could still identify DNA markings to tie me back to that ancestor from relatively specific region in Asia.

Still holding onto HaploGroup X ??? Good luck