Wallsofjericho

As a non-beleiving JW I of course will be sending my girls to college despite Watchtower's repeated direction to pioneer and forego post secondary education.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/education...

I know many JW's will deny this, but as a JW in the audience of countless assemby and convention talks and experiences, we all "get the message".

So anyway, I am not a huge fan of RESP's but I will probably set these up, I realized that the money I used to contribute to the Kingdom Hall would actually compound in an RESP for my girls quite nicely.

The Watchtower often points to how expensive "higher education" is, but if you stop donating to the Society you might be surprised how affordable post secondary education can be.

Plus, if your kids go college or university they will likely not have to work for minimum wage like so many with only grade 12

So anyway, that is how I found money to save for college tuitions, how about you?

seriously.

many will say: "that will never happen" or "I know it's the truth".

But I also said that countless times in my youth to scoolmates and co-workers, yet after decades of loyally serving the Watchtower and defending the WTS as the sole source of truth, I now know in my heart and mind that it is NOT the truth.

I said to many people I knew it was "the truth" yet now I know factually it it not.

For me, learning about the "business" of the society, the antics of Rutherford, the REAL Russell and how he started the bible students, the real history of the organization, the false claims and blunders of Gods spirit directed providers of truth made me realize that God just simply cannot possibly be that poor at managing his people. He cannot be that stupid, that human.

The WTS has made enormous changes recently in response to decades of insisting Armageddon was so close, the generation of 1914 is so old, the 144,000 are aging and their numbers are dwindling, times are so bad.

Yet here we are, the generation of 1914 is dead, the 144k numbers are rising, Amageddon has been post poned to AFTER an unknown period of time which itselft is still yet future, and now we have the infamous and desperate "overlapping generations".

If you haven't left already, what would possibly have to happen to make you even think that this might not be the truth you always thought it was?

If the WTS told you whole blood is a conscience decision would you leave then? considering how many men, woman and children have died refusing blood?

If the WTS told you that black people will be cured in the new system and resurrected with white skin, would that make you question?

if the Governing Body told you that your attitude toward them as the F&DS (not your love for Jehovah) was the determing factor as to whether you would survive Armageddon, would that make you question?

elders log in to download body of elders letters, enter time, place literature orders, etc. I know that visitor tracking displays the site where you came from and also what site you went to when you leave.

I wonder if any apostate elders have been busted by the IT Dept at bethel for logging into their site after visiting an apostate forum or adult web site.

I imagine they could gather a lot of electronic data with their new smart phone app also.

hmmmmm.....

Below are quotes taken directly from WTS literature, there is no spin or liberty taken with the text. I can therefore NOT be reported for any kind of abuse since these are 100% factual quotes directly from Watchtower texts

*** and for the JW that keeps reporting me for stating facts you don't like to hear ..... you know who you are)

Could a believing JW please summarize the following WTS quotes into one simple sentence.

Thanks

DIRECT WTS QUOTES BELOW:

The Watchtower of July 15, 2013 said "It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel." (page 20)"

"We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24 Simplified English Edition

"The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ." Watchtower 2010 Sep 15 p.23

"It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370

"A mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and the faithful and discreet slave." (Watchtower, August 1, 2001, p. 14).

"By submitting to the slave class, Gods people also show their subjection to the Master, Jesus Christ."(w02 10/1 p. 19)

"This governing body is the administrative part of a 'faithful and discreet slave' or 'steward' class concerning which Jesus promised: 'His master . . . will appoint him over all his belongings.' (Matt. 24:45-47; Luke 12:42-44) So, recognition of that governing body and its place in Gods theocratic arrangement of things is necessary for submission to the headship of Gods Son." (w72 12/15 p. 755)

Therefore, when we loyally submit to the direction of the faithful slave and its Governing Body, we are submitting to Christ, the slave’s Master. - (W 4-1-2007, p.24. par.12)

And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a "great war cry." (W 11-15-81, p. 21, par.18)

Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the "one flock" Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves withJehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established. (KM 11/1990, par.1)

Those desiring salvation must make for God’s organization, and find entrance into it and remain there permanently (W 10-1-1952, p.603)

We Need Jehovah’s Organization:What does the Bible say? Does God want Christians to be associated with an organization? (W 1-1-2001, p.30)

I am currently living as a Jehovah's Witness even though I know its a false religion. Despite that, my friends and family are JW's so I have opted to stay in so I can make the best of a bad situation.... I am not interested in being judged for this, all I have to say about that is that people are happy and unhappy in all kinds of different lifestyles.

Having said that, I find the buddhist ideology very intriguing, very peaceful. I went to a buddhist temple breifly to observe what was happeing there. I know the secrecy of this lifestyle probably would not be in exact harmony with the buddhist philosophy but maybe the meditation and personal enlightenment could help me sort this all out?

Anyone here converted to buddhism? or at least adopted its tenets?

I am not sure where to start. Any advice is appreciated

Thanks!

I have finally come to the conclusion that the WTS has beaten me. If I come out and tell my friends and family that the Governing Body are just human cult leaders and that the WTS is not the channel of God, i will lose all my family and freinds.

So now I have to somehow just pretend I beleive all their lies and not want to blow my brains out doing it.

I imagine for some closet homosexuals living a secret life for fear of losing their families could relate to my position.

Are there other JW's here that are mentally free from the WTS but still live within them for the sake of their family?

I don't want to be some inside vigilante, I just want to enjoy my family and if that means sitting through district conventions on beautiful longs weekends in a suit and tie while normal people go boating or camping, well... so be it.

I suppose I can go in service again, I will try to just stretch out break and do lots of inefficient country territory with RV's at polar opposite ends of the territory. I figure if I drive I can control this better.

I just don't want to go stir crazy. The other option is to come clean and lose my family to the WTS for good, which to me is a fate worse than hell.

I find it ironic that the history of the Watchtower is so plagued with anti-semetism, racism, feminism, and occultism.

How is it ok for the JW's to lambaste other religions for these same things yet themselves be free from accusation?

As usual, (and unlike JW's) I include proof to support my statements. Here are some great examples of what a bigoted anti-semetist the precious Rutherford was:

19. J.F. Rutherford. 'Enemies' (The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1937) p. 281.

***Rutherford in his book 'Enemies' writes about Jews “ultra-selfish men called 'Jews' who look only for personal gain.”(19)

20. Ibid, p. 212

***In the same book he writes that the Jews “practice religion, of which the Devil is the author.”(20)

21. J.F. Rutherford, A Righteous Government, The Golden Age, February 23, 1927, p.343

***In another book he again writes about the Jews: “Be it known once and for all that those profiteering, conscienceless, selfish men who call themselves Jews, and who control the greater portion of the finances of the world and the business of the world...”(21)

23. Prof. M.J. Penton. “A Story of Attempted Compromise: Jehovah’s Witnesses, Anti - Semitism and the Third Reich”. 1990.

***Speaking at 'Bible Students' convention in Winnipeg, Manitoba in the early 1920’s, Rutherford described a Jew as “the hooked-nosed, stooped-shouldered little individual who stands on the street corner trying to gyp you out of every nickel you’ve got.”(23)

*** so JW's.... was this man really jehovah's Faithful & Discreet Slave? Really? Why would Jehovah use such an ego-maniacal, bigoted jerk to "feed" his people?

I have been getting the CD-ROM for about 20 years now I guess, but I have always got the bound volumes as well.

I found though that I never even cracked the spine on the past 20 years of volumes since it is so easy to just use the CD-ROM.

I know some like to keep the volumes in case of persecution, but I can't imagine anyone will be lugging 2,700lbs of books with them as they flee from persecutors.

I decided this year to stop getting the volumes and only use the CD-ROM. If I ever want an old copy of a WT I can easily attain a PDF online from jw.org or any plethera of web forums that post old WT scans.

I also tossed out at least 20 boxes of old bound volumes that I have been collecting for almost 30 years, as I said many of which were never even opened. It's nice to finally not haul these boxes out every time I move only to have them sit in a garage or under the stairs unopened for further decades.

How about you? Do you still like to have the bound volumes in your library eventhough you can save trees by using the CD-ROM or online library?

I have a serious issue with this. I just don't understand how JW's will use the failed predictions of other religions to prove them false, yet when confronted with the failures by the WTS they just dismiss these away as "imperfection" or "old light" or "zealousness"

Couldn't every other religion make the same excuse?

For example, how does the JW feel when they read these opposing Watchtower quotes:

WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SAID PRIOR TO 1914:

"The year A.D. 1878, ... clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord...." Thy Kingdom Come (1911 ed) p.239

WHAT THEY NOW CLAIM TO HAVE SAID PRIOR TO 1914:

"The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower 1993 Jan 15 p.5

AGAIN,,, WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SAID PRIOR TO 1914:

"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226

AND AGAIN,,,,, WHAT THEY NOW CLAIM TO HAVE SAID PRIOR TO 1914:

"Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8

*** So how does a JW accept the two latter statements as true when they are so clearly false? Do you not feel lied to? How do you justify attacking "christendom" as teaching falsehoods when the WTS is just as guilty?

There are numerous other examples of the same types of statements above at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/failed-1914-pred...

With so many examples of failed WTS predictions and statements, how does the active JW dismiss this away and still accept the WTS without question?

QUOTE

"We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24 Simplified English Edition

QUOTE

"The point is that Christians have implicit trust in their heavenly Father; they do not question what he tells them through his written Word and organization." Watchtower 1974 Jul 15 p.441

I am sure some JW's will avoid this and dismiss me away by asking me why i care what they think. Well I guess I care because this is a source of anguish for me and so many other people raised as JW's and facing the shunning of family lest we express even a minor disbelief in the WTS as God's SOLE channel of "truth" and remain loyal to the org. (Watchtower 1992 Nov 15 pp. 19-20)

The WTS attacks Catholics: QUOTE :"The vast business holdings of the Vatican and of other religious organizations bind them inseparably with the business world. How unlike the true Christians concerning whom Jesus Christ said: "They are no part of the world"!—John 17:16.

*** yet the WTS retains vast real property and is making millions of dollars by selling properties they have improved with volunteer labour. They also possess large investment portfolio's which are public record due to their tax exempt status.

How can the JW not see the hypocrisy in this?

******** And perhaps the most incriminating statement by the WTS I have ever read is this:

*** w50 12/1 p. 468 Does Papal Encyclical Resist Compromise? ***Actually, it is not so much compromise that the pope opposes. Catholic Church history reeks with many kinds of compromises. What the pope fears are the compromises of priests made independent of the Church. He fears their drift from papal control, and that is why his encyclical repeatedly hammers home the assertion that the Church is the "teaching authority". But is the Catholic Church the "teaching authority", the "faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season"? (Matt. 24:45) No organization that provides pagan doctrines as spiritual "meat in due season" could be, for 1 Corinthians 10:21 states: "Ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils."

Yet the WTS repeatedly enforces a strict protocol of odedience without question. They have even implied "mental instability" for those who profess to be of the anointed and (at the time) be a part of the F&DS. Today the WTS has changed its 100 year old teaching of the F&DS and narrowed this down to only its isolated Governing Body.

This is exactly the same principle the WTS has used to profess the falseness of the Catholic Church.

Please, for any beleiving JW reading this, how do you continue to have faith in the WTS as God's sole channel when they have so clearly demonstrated that they are no better than any other religion of Christendom?

THE WATCHTOWER (STUDY EDITION) SEPTEMBER 2012, the article "How This World Will Come to an End" the WTS states in par.5 regarding Babylon the Great:

QUOTE

She will be wiped out rather quickly, as if “in one day.”​

END QUOTE

As I sat in my chair at the meeting it dawned on me that this statement has always been made and just simply accepted without any second thought.

Has anyone ever considered HOW MONUMENTOUS a task it would be to destroy ALL "false" religion?

For crying out loud, some nobody in the US posts a youtube video and the muslim world went wild!

It took NATO 20 years to catch Bin Laden for pete's sake! Yet the WTS says: "Jehovah will cause the UN to destroy Babylon the Great as in one day.The nations of the UN will plunder the harlot’s wealth, expose her real character, devour her, and “completely burn her.” Her destruction will be final."

After making this comment they just move onto the next "phase", the attack on God's people.

Wha, wha, what??? Back up just a tik! There are BILLIONS of religious extremists on the planet. BILLIONS!!! How can anyone passively make such a statement as "god will destory all false religion and then the governements will come after the Watchtower Society"?

For anyone inclined to comment, please don't just say "Jehovah can do anything" or "with Jehovah anything is possible". It took over 130 years just for the F&DS to figure out who they are, please don't just dismiss a massive event affecting billions of people (destruction of false religion) with a nose wiggle from Jehovah.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone else has given this a thought. How can the WTS make the claim that BtG will be destroyed "as in one day"?

ADDER: Or is this a "prophetic day" = 1 year? Or does 1 day = 1 year which = 360 lunar calendar days which = 360 solar years? (thinking of how the WTS twisted 1260 days to = 2520 solar years)

The WTS is really good at manipulating numbers and time durations, they've been doing it for over 130 years, I mean just look at the overlapping generations!

The Watchtower Society admits that no secular scholars support it's false teaching that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in 607 BCE (scholars accept 586/587 BCE as the time period)

PROOF:

WT Nov 2, 2011 pg.23 footnote : Note: None of the secular experts quoted in this article hold that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.

*** To dismiss this away, the WTS attacks the credibility of the scholars and the reliability of their research & Ptolemy’s Canon. In the same WT article sited above they state on pg. 22:

ˇ Secular historians base their conclusions on the writings of classical historians and on the canon of Ptolemy.

ˇ Some writings of classical historians contain significant errors and are not always consistent with the records on clay tablets.

The article sited above goes on to critique various scholarly writings, not to prove the date 587 BCE wrong, but only to cast doubt on a miniscule fraction of evidence that supports its veracity despite the mountains of other evidence that is accepted without debate.

Interestingly, the WTS gets caught in its own web when it both supports and discredit’s the veracity of Ptolemy’s Canon.

PROOF: (SUPPORT) The date of 539 B.C.E. for the fall of Babylon can be arrived at not only by Ptolemy's canon." Insight on the Scriptures p.454

PROOF: (DISCREDIT) "Though the classical historians and the canon of Ptolemy disagree with this date [607 B.C.], valid questions can be raised about the accuracy of their writings." Watchtower 2011 Oct 1 p.31

__________________

***the WTS calculates its 607 BCE date by using the "pivotal date" of 539BCE as the fall of Babylon.

Yet this date is a SECULAR date. The WTS uses this SECULAR date to calculate 607 BCE.

The WTS then dismisses away any refutation against its 607 BCE date by claiming its date of 607 is God’s date: PROOF:

"However, where the interpretation of these findings conflicts with clear statements in the Bible, we accept with confidence what the Holy Scriptures say, whether on matters related to chronology or any other topic." Watchtower 1989 Mar 15 p.22

Yet God’s date is based on the SECULAR date of 539 BCE.

********How can the WTS both use secular dates to support its 539 BCE date while at the same time attack that same evidence when it conflicts with its 607 BCE date?

I mean, it's half the amount of text than before so it should take twice as long to earn your WTS Masters right?

I know a lot of really smart JW's that dropped out of school but know how to recite everything the governing body tells them by heart.

They need a calculator to add 2+2 but they can tell you Psalm 83:18 really fast! and they can also tell you really fast that "bad association spoils useful habits".

And they can tell you really fast that the bible says we are to "abstain from blood".

And guess how fast a JW can tell you that "faith without works is dead"! they can say that so fast you'll swear they went to University..... except that they likely can't tell you where in the bible that is or that James said it, just that it's "in the bible".

they're really smart. But I guess now it will take 20 years to get that smart instead of 10 right?