Robert S

Okay, I saw a post today on this religious forum: "the christian God i believe in, i dont think would kill anyone." Okay, God killing all the first born babies in Egypt (Exodus 12), or how bout this same god commanding Joshua and all israel to kill all women and children in Jericho (Joshua 6)? Geez, I can go on forever here...

Now we have Christians posting that God hates suicide and human sacrifice, yet Jesus' human sacrifice is the cornerstone of the religion.

Thus, due to my annoyance with xian ignorance, I ask: "Was the Crucifixion murder, suicide, or deicide."

I vote for suicide. Jesus is no different from Judas. What do you think?

An uninsured motorist ran a red light and hit me. There were two eye-witnesses to the accident, who gave testimony to my insurance company (and will be subpoenaed) that this driver was at fault and ran a red light. They also gave this testimony to the police officer on the scene. This uninsured motorist was issued a ticket by the officer for no insurance. Yet, because my insurance company would not pay, this motorist has filed suit against me. My insurance company left me a VM saying that an attorney called them (maybe this is BS?) saying they are filing suit, and when I get the paperwork, they will need it right away. I am not an attorney, have never been in court, and have not heard back yet from my insurance company, only am getting VM. I am curious how this works and what will happen.

I love learning languages. I became fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. I have translated the Bible a dozen times. I won at graduation from seminary the J.J. Owens Hebrew award for being the top language student (in Hebrew and Aramaic) at seminary.

Here is my history, raised christian, went to seminary at 22, minister at 23. At 28, study Archaeology in Israel, it proved to me the Bible is myth. Then, I go to night school, become an accountant, and start making a real living.

I started studying my ancestry a couple years ago. I found out my last name means "Saxon." I traced my ancestry back 1200 years, through great expense, and time, with my relatives who are living in Germany. (Only my grandpa and grandma came to america, the rest remained in Germany). When I went to college, I lost my german I learned in high school, and my grandparents died 6 and 8 years ago.

My relatives in Germany speak German and english.

In studying my ancestral history, I learned that the Saxon people long resisted becoming christians, and 4,500 of them were beheaded for returning to paganism after forced conversion. I totally am fascinated wtih the tribal history of the Saxons in continental Germany. I beleive that the french, who forcefully converted them, and merged them with other tribes, destroyed them.

I do not have the time as an accountant, married with kids, to learn two languages. My family in Germany speak english, and say German is on the decline in Germany, especially in the universities. I doubt I will ever move to Germany. My kids are american, as am I, born here.

Thus, back to the question. Should I learn Old Saxon, to connect with my ancestors? (But only christian writings survived, and I hate chrisitnaity. It is icing on the cake that my ancestors were slaughtered in the name of christ, and I can prove it.) Studying how the German language (modern) came to be, it is a latinized and christianized form coming out of many germanic tribal languages, after all of them were forcefully converted by Charlemagne and the french to christianity. I see the history of Germany, from Charlemagne to Hitler, as the opposite of the values of my ANCIENT ancestors, and thus, I think German is like a whore christian language, one that my ancestors (ANCIENT) probably would not have been in favor of. Thus, I can't make up my mind to get myself fluent in modern German to do research in German on my ancestors, or if I should study old saxon, to read old saxon writings (christian) and continue researching my ancestors tribal history, in English, but connect with my ancestors by learning their ancient language, when they had the values and nation of their own, before forced conversion. Religion for years has been a topic of division in my family. My grandpa was pissed (a lutheran) he had to convert to catholicism to marry my grandma, and my parents and I think religion is an evil divicive force. Thus, we feel more connected to our ancestors who were pagan, before xianity. Hope this makes sense.

I just love learning languages, and just want to learn one, and can't make up my mind. Thus, asking for sincere replies only.

I love learning languages. I became fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. I have translated the Bible a dozen times. I won at graduation from seminary the J.J. Owens Hebrew award for being the top language student (in Hebrew and Aramaic) at seminary.

Here is my history, raised christian, went to seminary at 22, minister at 23. At 28, study Archaeology in Israel, it proved to me the Bible is myth. Then, I go to night school, become an accountant, and start making a real living.

I started studying my ancestry a couple years ago. I found out my last name means "Saxon." I traced my ancestry back 1200 years, through great expense, and time, with my relatives who are living in Germany. (Only my grandpa and grandma came to america, the rest remained in Germany). When I went to college, I lost my german I learned in high school, and my grandparents died 6 and 8 years ago.

My relatives in Germany speak German and english.

In studying my ancestral history, I learned that the Saxon people long resisted becoming christians, and 4,500 of them were beheaded for returning to paganism after forced conversion. I totally am fascinated wtih the tribal history of the Saxons in continental Germany. I beleive that the french, who forcefully converted them, and merged them with other tribes, destroyed them.

I do not have the time as an accountant, married with kids, to learn two languages. My family in Germany speak english, and say German is on the decline in Germany, especially in the universities. I doubt I will ever move to Germany. My kids are american, as am I, born here.

Thus, back to the question. Should I learn Old Saxon, to connect with my ancestors? (But only christian writings survived, and I hate chrisitnaity. It is icing on the cake that my ancestors were slaughtered in the name of christ, and I can prove it.) Studying how the German language (modern) came to be, it is a latinized and christianized form coming out of many germanic tribal languages, after all of them were forcefully converted by Charlemagne and the french to christianity. I see the history of Germany, from Charlemagne to Hitler, as the opposite of the values of my ANCIENT ancestors, and thus, I think German is like a whore christian language, one that my ancestors (ANCIENT) probably would not have been in favor of. Thus, I can't make up my mind to get myself fluent in modern German to do research in German on my ancestors, or if I should study old saxon, to read old saxon writings (christian) and continue researching my ancestors tribal history, in English, but connect with my ancestors by learning their ancient language, when they had the values and nation of their own, before forced conversion. Religion for years has been a topic of division in my family. My grandpa was pissed (a lutheran) he had to convert to catholicism to marry my grandma, and my parents and I think religion is an evil divicive force. Thus, we feel more connected to our ancestors who were pagan, before xianity. Hope this makes sense.

I just love learning languages, and just want to learn one, and can't make up my mind. Thus, asking for sincere replies only.

I love learning languages. I became fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. I have translated the Bible a dozen times. I won at graduation from seminary the J.J. Owens Hebrew award for being the top language student (in Hebrew and Aramaic) at seminary.

Here is my history, raised christian, went to seminary at 22, minister at 23. At 28, study Archaeology in Israel, it proved to me the Bible is myth. Then, I go to night school, become an accountant, and start making a real living.

I started studying my ancestry a couple years ago. I found out my last name means "Saxon." I traced my ancestry back 1200 years, through great expense, and time, with my relatives who are living in Germany. (Only my grandpa and grandma came to america, the rest remained in Germany). When I went to college, I lost my german I learned in high school, and my grandparents died 6 and 8 years ago.

My relatives in Germany speak German and english.

In studying my ancestral history, I learned that the Saxon people long resisted becoming christians, and 4,500 of them were beheaded for returning to paganism after forced conversion. I totally am fascinated wtih the tribal history of the Saxons in continental Germany. I beleive that the french, who forcefully converted them, and merged them with other tribes, destroyed them.

I do not have the time as an accountant, married with kids, to learn two languages. My family in Germany speak english, and say German is on the decline in Germany, especially in the universities. I doubt I will ever move to Germany. My kids are american, as am I, born here.

Thus, back to the question. Should I learn Old Saxon, to connect with my ancestors? (But only christian writings survived, and I hate chrisitnaity. It is icing on the cake that my ancestors were slaughtered in the name of christ, and I can prove it.) Studying how the German language (modern) came to be, it is a latinized and christianized form coming out of many germanic tribal languages, after all of them were forcefully converted by Charlemagne and the french to christianity. I see the history of Germany, from Charlemagne to Hitler, as the opposite of the values of my ANCIENT ancestors, and thus, I think German is like a whore christian language, one that my ancestors (ANCIENT) probably would not have been in favor of. Thus, I can't make up my mind to get myself fluent in modern German to do research in German on my ancestors, or if I should study old saxon, to read old saxon writings (christian) and continue researching my ancestors tribal history, in English, but connect with my ancestors by learning their ancient language, when they had the values and nation of their own, before forced conversion. Religion for years has been a topic of division in my family. My grandpa was pissed (a lutheran) he had to convert to catholicism to marry my grandma, and my parents and I think religion is an evil divicive force. Thus, we feel more connected to our ancestors who were pagan, before xianity. Hope this makes sense.

I just love learning languages, and just want to learn one, and can't make up my mind. Thus, asking for sincere replies only.

When I was a beleiver, and not thinking critically, I assumed that the successful prayers were proof that God answers prayer while the failures were proof that there was something wrong with me. (Or that I sinned or something)

If the answers to prayer are merely what God wills all along, then why pray?

Prayer never changes the laws of nature. That is why in ministry I saw a ten year old die of cancer. I can list all the *&^% I saw as a minister, all the accidents, the diseases, the divorces, the domestic violence, people who lost a child, limbs, or whatever. Oye...prayer never changed those realities. Thus, what is the point of it?

(Asks the now unbeleiving former Baptist Minister)...

Hint: It does not mean a married man sleeping with a virgin. So, what does it mean? What does the word "adultery" mean in the Bible. Prove it to me.

10 points to the best answer...

1 Samuel 15:1 "Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " "

Saul decided to not to obey God: 7 Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur. 8 He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. 9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves [b] and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

Now see the Question below:

Jesus comes back? Or the Cubs winning the world series one day?

Or does this merely show a lack of common sense? Christians read the Greek myths, the Roman myths, the Persian myths, the Sumerian myths (and flood stories), Babylonian myths, Egyptian myths... etc etc etc and come to the conclusion that these stories are not factual. Why do they lack then the common sense to not see Adam and Eve, Noah and the Ark, etc as obvious myths?

"Scripture" (noun.) Definition: The writings of our faith, as oppossed to the false and lying writings of which all the other faiths are based...

In John 8, a woman is caught in Adultery. She is brought into the Temple to be stoned. Adultery is a sin it takes two to commit, and the Jews who caught her and the man let the man go. They only brought the woman before Jesus to stone her. The Law of Moses says both the adulteror and the Adultress are to be stoned together.

I concluded that a Gentile wrote the passage in John, the errors are numerous and obvious. Would Jesus or Jews only beleive that women should be stoned for adultery when Deut 22 states otherwise? Deut 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.”

Would Jews carry rocks in the temple if they were not going to stone her there? Is Jesus answer theologically correct? He himself can't throw the first stone, even if he is witout sin, for Deut 17 states that the 2 or 3 that caught them are to throw the first stones, then all Israel. honestly!!!

Paul in his resurrection account says that Jesus appeared First to Cephas (Peter), then to the twelve. (Twelve? Judas was dead). (I Corinthians 15:5)

What am I missing here?

Who is a worse sinner, Bill Clinton, or Jimmy Carter?

I have looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times. God recognizes I will do this and forgives me.

-- Jimmy Carter, interview in Playboy (November 1976), during the presidential campaign against Gerald Ford, quoted from The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations

Is Bill Clinton a worse sinner than Jimmy Carter?

"I have looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times. God recognizes I will do this and forgives me."

-- Jimmy Carter, interview in Playboy (November 1976), during the presidential campaign against Gerald Ford, quoted from The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations

What do you make of the following quotes:

"To regard Christ as God, and to pray to him, are to my mind the greatest possible sacrilege."

-- Leo Tolstoy, letter April 4, 1901, to the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church, in response to his excommunication, in Henri Troyat, Tolstoy (1967), p. 591, in Nathan Haskell Dole, The Life of Lyof N Tolstoi (1923), p. 371-2

"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking; where it is absent, discussion is apt to become worse than useless."-- Leo Tolstoy

I mean seriously, if another 2,000 years pass without the rapture and christ's return, how long do you want your offspring to keep up the waiting game?

You think you are persecuted when you are merely disagreed with? What persecution can you feel on a Yahoo discussion panel?

Sometimes, I don't think american christians really have an understanding of what "persecution" really is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_court_of_Verden

Most of my family lives in Germany, and have lived in the same area for hundreds of years. We have traced our descent. Our last name in Old Saxon is the Old Saxon word for "Saxon." Like most saxons, we did not want to be ruled by the kaisers or the Weimar Republic, or the Nazis, but Hannover was its own state and tried to remain so.

Charlemagne beheaded 4,500 of my ancestors for returning to paganism after forced baptism and conversion. To me, being a Saxon in the modern world is to reject christiantiy and honor my ancestors. Christianity has much blood on its hands...

I also think a modern saxon should not worship his old pagan gods, for they are not real either...but to remember our history and be proud.

Most people's ancestors in america are pagan before forced conversion to christianity. Charlemagne made Europe christian with forced conversions over almost a dozen nations today. Thoughts?

1. Fly airplanes into buildings? I haven't seen any atheists do this one yet. maybe atheists value life more?

2. Have holy wars? (i.e. Lead crusades, killing each other, and commiting genocide en masse. )

3. Murder in the name of God (as Joshua and all Israel were ordered to kill everyone-including the children and animals in Jericho-Josh Chapter 6)?

4. Claim they are holier than thou (i.e. "we are the chosen people" meaning that the rest of us are not chosen or loved as much by the creator). we are going to hell, they heaven, though we all commit the same sins, but they accept a "belief" via faith...thus thier mental state makes them better?

5. Claim a tree is judged by its fruit. Okay, so since the holy spirit lives in you o christian, why do you wear the same cloths, watch the same raunchy TV shows and movies, drive the same cars, have the same jobs, etc. I really don't see your life as any more "holy" than us atheists. Thus, the Holy spirit isn't making you better?

Why do so many people here discuss homosexuality as if it was tied to atheism? I am an atheist, but not a homosexual. It is just not my thing, and have been attracted only to the opposite sex my whole life. Just because I do not understand homosexuality by experience, doesn't mean that I am against homosexuality. I am not against homosexuality, i think people should have the freedom to be that if that is what they want. Just cause it ain't me, doesn't mean I am against it. Also, I am sick of the posts on homosexuality and the Bible. Homsexuality is a sexual orientation, not a religion. If it is dionysys they want to discuss, there is the mythology and folklore section. Personally, I think Chrsitianity and Islam, and Judaism should be there as well, for all religion is simply mythology. But still, we can separate atheism and homosexuality. Not all people who are homosexual are atheists, or vice versa...