Because we have not seen,means we do not believe? How about, because we experience, we believe?

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I agree with everything you said...and the atheist response is perfectly predictable. Evidence, evidence, evidence...be it the evidence of our eyes or the evidence of our experiences, it is still about evidence.

The human body analogy makes sense...to you...and even to me...but to someone that believes all decisions should be made based on evidence, it makes very little sense. As one answer said, we have evidence that our internal organs exist...people have cut into the human body and seen them...scientists have studied them closely and shared their knowledge with others.

This is the inherrent flaw in both your initial statements. Because we have not seen means we do not believe...in other words, the lack of evidence justifies a lack of belief. Because we have experienced, we believe...in other words, the evidence of our experiences justifies our belief. However, in both cases, the prerequisite is FAITH, not evidence!

The first position depends on the faith we put in that "amazing" human body you described. Those wonderful five senses that allow us to collect evidence about the world around us...that amazing mind that allows us to compile and analyze all that evidence and draw conclusions based on our faculties of reason and logic...and even provides us with emotions/feelings to guide that process (e.g., something just doesn't "feel right").

The only real difference in the second position is the prerequisite position of faith in God. Because we choose to have faith in God, our experiences provide evidence to support that faith. We can see the relationship between our prayers and the things we experience. As we compile and analyze the evidence around us, our faith allows us to see logical/rational connections that those without faith attribute to chance/coincidence (also using their logic/reason).

Don't you see...your argument is based on evidence...on the assumption that if you can convince a non-believer that the evidence of your experiences is valid, that they will choose to believe. But the way I see it, the argument itself is invalid. Faith is NOT based on evidence, evidence is based on faith! You simply can't convince someone to have faith in God by providing them with evidence that he exists...because without that faith, they won't accept your evidence as valid.

Faith is a choice...and it is a choice you must make every day, every moment, even when the evidence doesn't support that choice. If you manage to convince someone that your evidence is valid and then they choose to believe based on that evidence, their faith will not and can not stand up in the face of evidence that seems to contradict that faith.

Personally, I think this is the reason that so many people turn away from what seems to be a sincere and strong faith in God...because the foundation of their faith was evidence instead of choice. They were convinced to believe because the evidence they were given seemed to support a decision to have faith in God...and when their experiences provided evidence that contradicted the original evidence, they chose to reject faith in favor of another explanation. To put it simply, they NEVER gave up their basic faith in their own mind and body...and it was that faith that supported their evidence-based decision to believe in God. When their faith in God then encountered evidence that didn't make sense to them, they continued to put their true faith in themselves and rejected God based on the new evidence. Sorry, but that kind of faith...faith based on evidence...is a shallow faith that is far too easily swayed by what we see AND what we experience!


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Edited response:

I can fully understand the position of those who say "I've seen no evidence, so I don't believe". I spent a good portion of my life viewing Christianity from that window so I know exactly what the view is from there.

When Jesus walked the earth and performed miracles before large crowds there were many who witnessed His work and heard His words first hand and still could not bring themselves to believe. So it should not be a mystery that so many cannot believe today. After all, what evidence do they have?

Or better yet, what evidence are they seeking?

I believe one poster (Insanity) answered that question perfectly when he said that he cannot believe in God because he’s never "felt God". THIS is the evidence that many are actually seeking but only a few find. Even Thomas who was listed among the Lord’s disciples could only bring himself to believe in the resurrection after he had “felt” the physical evidence with his own hands. (John 20:24-28)

But if Thomas lived today, would he still be counted among our Lord’s believers? I believe he would because even in his unbelief he took the steps to seek the evidence and didn't stop until he "felt" it. Every message in the New Testament is a lesson in how the unbelieving world will respond to God’s Word and how we can still reach the many Thomas’s of today.

Since the morning Thomas touched the Lord’s wounds, no unconvinced person has found evidence of our Lord Jesus anywhere in the physical world and that is where those who have totally closed their hearts are focusing their attention. So attempting to convince them on an intellectual level is wasted effort. That's why they mock such questions as yours here. One may as well pound a Bible on a vault door.

Just as you and I were not convinced by any physical evidence neither shall anyone else be today. We were convinced because we opened our hearts and accepted God’s evidence in. And that is how others will come to know God too.

Hebrew 11:1 tells us …
“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

Our faith in God is the substance of what the seeking world hopes for.
Our faith in Jesus Christ is the evidence of what the seeking world cannot see.

For those who have taken that short step away from that window of total disbelief to seek the Lord; all that is required to find their evidence is a truly open and sincerely repentant heart. And with the tiniest bit of faith, God WILL give come into their heart and give them their evidence. (Mark 4:30-32)

God has promised it…

“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” (Rev 3:20)

God Bless and keep the good questions coming. ;)
Teresa...Show more

Thanks for your question, it is another thought provoking one isn't it?
First I would like to share a scripture:
2Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

We can see from this scripture that everything you can physically see with your eyes are temporary. But the invisible things ( the things you can't see with your physical eyes ) are eternal.
I feel like those invisible things is what you were talking about in your question, those things that God has made and has also declared they will last forever. As we look around we can see the earth and how it is now, and we know that one day it too will be changed ( Rev. 21:1 ), and even our own body that is so wonderfully made, as believers in Jesus our bodies will be changed in an instant. ( I Corinthians 15:51-54 ) God has giving us all souls and those souls will live forever,
there are only two places that people spend eternity. In Heaven with God, or in Hell without God forever. God has no pleasure in people going to Hell, that is why He sent His Son Jesus Christ to take your punishment on the cross, Jesus paid the price for the sins of the world to reconcile us to God. God raised Jesus from the dead, and Jesus is alive sitting at the right hand of God. God does take pleasure in a sinner that turns to Him, and believes on Him and His Son Jesus Christ.
Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
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Hello Sister,I see we still have our unbelievers standing instead of on God's promises their own refusals to accept the one true, real love....Sis faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen which certainly is what you are explaining in your post a very good post I might add,we have faith that we can breathe,that our heart is going to beat and it stands to reason as long as we live we have the portion of faith that God said was dealt to every man......God Bless you and yours sister and thank you...Show more

Yes, I have experienced the reality of God so many times throughout my life. As I look back over my life, I see His hand that has planned and guided. I have collected so much 'evidence' of Him working in my life. "For we know that all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose." Romans 8 v 28

Let me share a little - of the beginning.

I was born into a family who were not Christians, and when I was just
11 days old my mom had a severe stroke, which left her physically and
mentally impaired. My dad had his work cut out, as I was the second
of their children, my sister was just 6 years old. He was left with
the demands of raising her, and looking after my mom full time, as
well as a new baby. For a few days after my birth, I was handed
around the family. There was no shortage of family, as my mom alone
had 5 sisters and 6 brothers.

Unknown to my parents, one of my mothers sisters (Phyllis), who was
the only Christian in the large family, had a word from the
Lord....saying 'Take this child, and nurse it for me'. Now Phyllis
and her husband already had two children of their own, and up until
that time, had decided their family were complete....but the Lord had
different plans!!!!

There were some of my moms siblings and their husbands, who were
unable to have children of their own, so the natural thing, would
have been for me to go and live with one of them. My natural parents
however, wanted me to go to the family where they knew I would be
loved the most, and their natural choice was Phyllis and her husband -
Sid.

The decision was made. The word from the Lord which Phyllis had, and
my own parents choice, came together. I had the privilage of being
brought up in a Christian home. Phyllis and Sid naturally became my
parents also. They loved me as much as they did their own children.

It was at the age of 13, I decided to commit my life to the Lord.
This followed the death of Sid (who I called dad also), he had a
tragic accident whilst working in the coal mines. I knew that He was
with the Lord, and I knew the comfort of that. Five months after this
occurance, my mom suffered another stroke which proved to be fatal.
These two deaths of parents in a short space of time, had an impact
on me which made me think about 'life'. I knew, that I needed the
Savior. I looked at the two families to which I was joined, and knew
that the Lord made Sid and Phyllis life so much richer, and I
wanted that for me....for my life.

The Lord has brought me through lots of difficulties, and sorrows,
but without Him, I would be lost, and helpless. The Lord has given me
beauty for ashes, oil of joy for mourning, and a garment of praise
for the spirit of heaviness. HOW GREAT IS MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!



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