This is a question for the pro-circumcision people.?
I am genuinely curious, not just trying to prove a point.
For the sake of argument lets presume that circumcision really does offer all the benefits you say it does. (I don't believe it does, but that is besides the point)
Why do you believe that it is a parents decision to make and not the childs? It is not a pressing medical concern, there is no need to rush it. It is purely preventitave. So I am confused, WHY is it not the childs decision to make? It is his penis, and if it is not urgent, then I don't understand. Do you not believe that we own our own bodies? Do you believe that we own them, but not until a certain age? If so when is that age? If you believe it is a certain age, then why is it not ok to abuse a child before that age, if they do not own their bodies, but we do? Because if we owned their bodies, would we not have the right to do whatever we want to them?
Also, when it is for relgious reasons, I still don't understand. In developed nations, there is freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. What if your son decides not to follow the religion he has been taught. I was raised christain and am now athiest. I understand that some people believe that god wants them circumcised and that is fine, but shouldn't it be between god and the person himself? Why as parents do you make those decisions for your child. It is not reversible, it is permanent and the child has no choice. Where as when you take them to church (or temple, or whatever) it does no harm to them permanently, if they decide not to follow, they just stop following.
I am not trying to offend anyone, so please, NO rudeness to me OR eachother. I am certainly no religious scholar, so inform me if need be
I am really just curious about this!
2008-11-16T12:35:43Z
MoeZ- lets say that the child MAY go blind later. It is unlikely, but possible. There is a surgery available that will greatly reduce their vision permantley, but will garuntee that the will not go blind. They could also have a shot that would do the same thing, but not affect teir vision in any way. Is the surgery not morally wrng in this situation? *** There are less invasive ways to handle problems caused by the foreskin than circumcision that are equally effective and do not interfere with sensitivity***
Wesley A2008-11-16T14:05:01Z
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I understand what MoeZ was trying to say, but unfortunately like so many other people that elect this procedure, he has completely missed the point. I really hate it when people try to compare common things like circumcision to hypothetical and impossible things like surgial blindness correction. But beyond that, the two things don't even compare. For one, blindness is considered a handicap or physical abnormality, having a foreskin is not! People are not supposed to be born blind but they are supposed to be born with a foreskin. So that argument doesn't stand up.
Secondly, circumcision does cause pain to the infant and it's not a required or even reccomended surgery by pediatricians. So choosing to do it because you "believe" that it's better for hygiene (even though that is also not true based on what I've recently read) isn't a good enough reason either and in fact causing pain to an infant without a necessity is immoral.
MoeZ is actually incorrect by saying that there are no positives or negatives of circumcision. There are both advantages and disadvantages to both so it's all about weighing the pros and cons. But since they are not medically pressing issues, the point is that it should be up to the individual to make those choices, not the parent.
Other than stating the legally obvious "it's well within the parents right to choose what to do with their children", how about examining whether or not it SHOULD BE right considering the moral implications. Again the point here is that they should not have that right because it's immoral. Just like parents shouldn't have the right to pierce their daughters ears at birth.
His final statement "It's a matter of the rights of the parent, not your right to impose your will on a parent." is also contradictory, yet also commonly believed nonsense. This basically translates into "We don't have the right to impose our will on parents, but parents have the right to impose their will on children (even if their will is wrong) because the law doesn't recognize the rights of children in this matter." Parents have rights, babies don't! It stings when you word it that way, but it basically says the same thing. Hopefully, as a society we (in the United States) will eventually advance to the level of most Europeans and realize that circumcision forced on infants without a medical necessity is just plain wrong and should be illegal!
One argument pro-circumcision activists often use is that parents make many decisions without their child's consent, such as giving them innoculations or piercing a girl's ears. But circumcision is on a whole different level, it removes a perfectly natural and important part of the boy's penis forever, and the apparent benefits are obviously widely disputed. It is a major amendment to their body and is irreversible, so such comparisons with other parental decisions are crazy. From the personal accounts I've read of some adults choosing to get circumcised themselves, it is a 'walk in the park'... remember "Surfnyogadude" who always maintainted he was circ'd on a Friday and back in school Monday as the pain was "nothing painkillers can't handle"? So I think that all boys should be able to make that decision too for themselves.
Male genital mutilation, called circumcision damaged my sensitivity so much that it made it impossible for me to achieve orgasm in normal sex.
I'm always surprised at the number of men who are blind to the fact that their manhood has been mutilated, and they've been deprived of most of their sexual sensitivity, yet they want all other males to get mutilated like they were. Perhaps it's because they don't want anyone else to have a better penis than they have.
I can understand, to a degree, the women who advocate male genital mutilation, as they haven't got a clue to how the male penis actually feels to the male.
But some women are unconsciously hostile toward the male penis, and have an almost sadistic joy in having men's genitals mutilated.
I'm absolutely astonished, though, at the lack of intelligence of most people who haven't got the idea that a complete, natural and normal penis obviously feels and functions better than one rendered partial, mutilated and scarred by circumcision.
The old wive's tales and deliberate lies about the male foreskin still abound, and are parroted by people who've never even seen a foreskin.
But the tide has turned, and slowly more Americans are leaving male children whole and unmutilated.
There are even Jews who are questioning the ethics and harm of circumcision---even a group; Jews Against Circumcision.
Perhaps someday this atrocity will be outlawed, as female genital mutilation is in the United States and males will finally have equal protection under the law, as the Constitution is supposed to give us.
While it's too late for many, hopefully the day will come.
As for the having your child make his own decision issue, I actually know someone whose parents did that. They were pro-circumcision, but they let him decide. He actually got circumcised when he was sixteen, and I plan to do the same with my future children. As for the religious part, I'm not so sure. I'm actually anti-circumcision but I was wondering what you were asking about. As far as I'm concerned, it's mutilation to the child. We are beside ourselves when we hear about the African culture who holds 7 year old girls down and cuts their clitoris out with an unsterilized razor, when essentially circumcision is the same thing.
I don't believe circumcision is either the parents or the baby boys decision. Circumcision is the decision of God and I believe God has commanded that it be done.
God put the foreskin there to be cut off as a symbol of the bond between the baby boy and him, and the baby boy and his father and brothers.
Circumcision is a special thing between guys. When a baby boy becomes circumsized, he becomes part of the brotherhood.