Answering for Jews - hubris or ignorance?

Someone asked a question about why Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah (yet another question on this!), but added that since Paul and the others were Jews, their words carried no weight.

The following answers were posted (among others):
1. Jews have no authority to speak for the Old Testament prophets who predicted the messiah. They've changed their own religion so much (to the rabbinic form) that they don't really understand the old version. When they become a nation of shepherds again, with a temple and animal sacrifice, they'll have the context to understand better. Until then, just read the OT for yourself. THAT is the authority on the messiah.

2. Modern Jews believe that people like James, Peter, Paul and the other followers of Jesus were all deceived and became what you might refer to as "renegades". Sadly, they haven't bothered reading their own Scriptures objectively! They have even rewritten some of the text.
For instance, in Isaiah 53, they change the pronouns left and right. When it actually says "He was bruised for our iniquities", for instance, they change it to read "We were bruised for their iniquities."
At one time, the Jews actually believed in a Messiah. They have thrown off the Scriptures and claim that each generation has its own messiah to rescue the Jews; and that Israel is messiah to the world. (such as, changing "By his stripes we are healed" to "by our stripes they are healed.")
It's obviously intellectual suicide, since they simply do not want to believe the Scriptures as they are clearly written. They don't WANT to believe in THE Messiah. They don't like the "Christianization" of the name - they don't like the NAME "Jesus", since so many bad things were done to the Jews in the NAME of "Jesus".
But God has reserved a remnant who have not bowed the knee to the false ideology and false god that the Jews have raised up in place of God, just as in the day of Elijah

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Are these answers (which are, in effect, saying that we do not know our own scripture and we are mistaken about our religion) due to ignorance (which I hope can be discussed with all having open minds - educational experience) or hubris (we know better than you about your own religion and you are all wrong)?

Whaddya think, folks?

Stevie M2009-10-19T15:19:39Z

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My guess is it's a little of both.

They are by and large ignorant of Jewish culture -- their knowledge of Judaism is comprised entirely of literal readings of the Pentateuch. And they are arrogant in thinking that theirs is the true religion and that Jews are either deceived or stubborn in refusing to accept Jesus.

I work at a university which offers courses in Biblical Hebrew. The Lutheran pastor who teaches thes courses may know the language very well, but his lectures are a source of much amusement to members of Campus Hillel. He may know how to decline a noun, but among Jewish students his reputation is for not knowing the difference between the Torah and the Tanakh. He is immune to correction, though -- to his mind, Jewish students can't possibly know as much about Jewish culture as an educated Christian.

The mind boggles.

Anonymous2009-10-19T15:12:26Z

These answers are just due to ignorance. First, we are FORBIDDEN to change even a single letter, so the whole thing about changing even the pronouns bit is wrong. Second, we have more experience in reading the Old Testament (Tanakh) than Christians. We have been around longer, and so we have our own beliefs (based on the original Hebrew) on who the Messiah is. The Christians can believe whatever they like, but we Jews can believe what we want too.

Just ignore them.

Kosher Ninja Chick JPA2009-10-19T15:20:18Z

It's a combination of both ignorance and hubris. Repeatedly, *some* non Jews insist on speaking FOR Jews - why, I don't know, because goodness knows we are sufficiently articulate and sufficiently well versed in our own texts to speak for OURSELVES.

Here's the thing that always makes me laugh: of all the things that are said about us as Jews, nobody EVER claims that we lack intelligence. Yet apparently, at the same time, we are SOOOOOO stupid that we need non Jews to explain OUR faith for us!

And yet the people who are arrogantly answering on our 'behalf' never see this irrationality in their own attitudes towards us!

Now that said, I must add: there are a number of non Jews - BAD TIM, MARIE, SJC and others who DO UNDERSTAND Jewish beliefs and who KINDLY DO answer on posts about Judaism and give the RIGHT answers.

MULLAH - you are extremely kind for starring Jewish related posts, please know how much we appreciate this!

Many others, including SCJ, SQUISHY, CHEFDAVID and many others are also very sweet and star things for us - cheers guys, you're the best :)

mindy2009-10-19T16:59:36Z

Christians are the ones who changed things around to suit their own religion. They go on and on how the old testament talks about Jesus. I could not ever see how the old testament ever talked about Jesus in the first place. Once while i waited at the walmart auto department for my car's oil to be changed and a preacher came in and sat next to me. He started preaching about being saved and i informed him i was Jewish. I can not say i know tons about the Torah but i challenged this man, I asked him how could God perform a human sacrifice (Jesus being hung on the cross) when God had previously deemed that action unacceptable for people to sacrifice humans..You know he could not answer me at all..he had nothing to say....So Christians yak all the time how they know all about the old test..our Torah but when confronted they can not explain their beliefs

Anonymous2009-10-19T16:36:18Z

Well it cant be ignorance or stupidity because they had to do alot of research and reading in order to twist things around to get the interpretation that they want.

I would call it dishonest and disingenuous. As in the case of the second answer, post a lie, then call someone a liar for not accepting your lie. (Im getting dizzy).

Ok...it can be ignorance. But its not stupidity. They cannot use that for an excuse.

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