Are you willing to consider that general human behavioral patterns are a key part of horoscopes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1nsEtjqPg8

Yes it may be enjoyable to contrive a sense of understanding about others with a horoscope, or with other human characteristic/type systems. But have you considered the social repercussions and shallowness that such assumptions lead to? Is the comfort of that contrived understanding really worth it? If so, have you considered how much that stifles your inquiry into the true state of mind of other individuals?

2012-11-28T18:40:00Z

@aspicco: "Of COURSE "general human behavioral patterns" play a part in doing astrology."

So astrology just states general things that can be applied to all human beings, to one degree or another? I see that as a admission that astrology can't say anything with any accuracy about any particular individual over another. General predictions about how people generally act only requires a little observation of the socio-cultural climate of the time/location.

"And BTW, there are astrology techniques involving world events, and astrology "birth charts" for countries and corporations... so in those cases "general human behavioral patterns" really don't apply."

And those world events, corporations, and the starting of countries are being caused by humans, no? Or do you mean the state of celestial bodies influence various forces of physics? A forest fire starting, a tectonic plate shifting, a storm gathering? Sounds very susceptible t

2012-11-28T19:29:50Z

@Ursula: "What he doesn't understand is that there is an element of spirituality involved that can't be measured / tested which defies reason and logic."

And how can you be so sure of that? What observation or line of reasoning would allow you justified certainty in that conclusion?

It sounds like this "element of spirituality involved" is a placeholder concept for an unknown factor in an observed phenomena. Perhaps to support the interpretation of the phenomena that you've developed?

To assert that it is "non-physical" and untestable is bold indeed. It sounds very much like an implied appeal to incredulity. Ever if you believe you have inquired down every single available avenue(leaving only the conclusion of un-testability), new information could become available opening new directions of inquiry, and allowing the testing of the involved.

"...the fundamental gift of greater understanding remains the same."

A perception of &quo

2012-11-28T19:31:59Z

@Ursula: "...the fundamental gift of greater understanding remains the same."

A perception of "understanding" can be contrived based on inaccuracies. It is far more important to establish that said understanding is an accurate representation of existence.

What actions do we take to develop higher degrees of accuracy in our concepts? And what do we do to develop higher degrees of predictive capability?

Independently verifying sources, the number of iterations of experimentation and observation, the normality of the evidence, reducing the number of confounding factors, the consistency of relevant factors between experiments, etc. All of those cumulatively result in establishing for us a degree of accuracy in predicting how a relationship will occur again later, after further change(predictive capability).

2012-11-28T19:32:38Z

@Ursula:
The sense organs are a good example of iterations of experimentation and observation that lead to predictive capability. Since birth we have developed a heuristic for interpreting the billions of normative signals to your brain from your functioning eye organs. Based on an implicit experimentation and observation feedback loop we learned when they are reliable, and many circumstances where the photon sensing of the eyes is not. Like a changing refraction index(you'd be far less confident in reaching into a sink full of knives that has water than if it were without water). The degree of circumstance based reliability developed is paramount. And normal brain function is constantly experimenting on all signals for normality and reliability.

Hypothetically, imagine if every millisecond the signal to your brain from your eyes represented a completely different world, a different set of photons/surfaces. Those signals would not allow any predictive capability, and you couldn&#

2012-11-28T19:33:26Z

...couldn't act based on it. The normality of our neural systems and sensory organs is take for granted, but very important for the degrees of predictive capability that we can justify. And luckily for us, there is a high frequency of the eyes experimenting on the photons available. We take special actions to develop higher degrees of accuracy, controlling for sensory/neural errors, and other potentially confounding factors. The scientific method is an application of this.

I appreciate the civility of your answer.

wizjp2012-11-28T06:22:45Z

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horoscopes are amusements. period.

Shilo2012-11-28T14:55:56Z

Yes, I am willing to consider that general human behavioral patterns are a key part of horoscopes - in fact, I not only consider it, I believe that is common sense.

I have listened to Bill Nye before and watched all the poorly designed and simplistic social experiments set out to subtly but obviously disprove Astrology..... and with an element of derision, I might add, so I don't need to watch this all again. I know Bill Nye is a skeptic, and from a hard, cold scientific viewpoint, what he says makes sense. What he doesn't understand is that there is an element of spirituality involved that can't be measured / tested which defies reason and logic. It truly doesn't matter if the earth has shifted on its axis and the signs have changed......the fundamental gift of greater understanding remains the same.

Yes, I have considered social repercussions and shallowness of the mis-use and abuse of Astrology. In a nutshell, bigotry, prejudice and Karma are the consequences, and they are certainly not desirable nor what I think is the ideal.

I have studied Psychology(two degrees and licensed), so Astrology does not stifle my inquiry into the true state of mind - it supplements it, but I try to be very careful in how I use what I know in all my personal and professional interactions.

edit: acknowledged.

Thank you for your interesting question.

aspicco2012-11-28T14:41:30Z

"General human behavioral patterns" are a key point of life. Of COURSE "general human behavioral patterns" play a part in doing astrology... I'm doing all my astrology readings for HUMANS, after all... your question is kind of silly. "General human behavioral patterns" don't invalidate astrology.

And BTW, there are astrology techniques involving world events, and astrology "birth charts" for countries and corporations... so in those cases "general human behavioral patterns" really don't apply.

If you are going to critique something, try doing more research than listening to a one-sided YouTube argument. The first thing Sagan says about astrology is inaccurate... not a good start.


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I said "general human behavioral patterns" play a part in doing astrology

That does not mean "So astrology just states general things that can be applied to all human beings, to one degree or another?"

It is obvious you have little interest in investigating or understanding how astrology works yourself, so....
Find a professional astrologer with some decent experience, and get reading done.
Then you will have something to look at and understand
Right now you are peeking in a window and trying to guess what is going on inside the house.
Open the door and come in.

Lynn V2012-11-30T16:11:45Z

Astrology, or Horoscopes, is just the study of human behavior according to when an individual, or corporation, whoever, is born, according to the season (Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter) and location.

?2012-11-28T18:06:56Z

Does anyone think they can devise a test for astrology's claims and satisfy all parties? Bare bones simple or complex, astrology can't beat randomness.

The goal of the astrologer is not accuracy but of customer satisfaction. Get them to pay and better yet come back for more makes a good astrologer.

“There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere. ”
― Isaac Asimov

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