Salvation between the religions and destiny?

hey i just talked to you about this, but i want to throw it out there to get some possible feedback as well..

yea that's usually how it works... in judaism.. at least in the old testament there isnt much talk of salvation and hoobedy blah that came after jesus, but there was a place called "sheol" which is kinda a shadowy afterlife realm, so the soul doesnt just end like in nihilism. and that soul is free from pain and suffering, becasuue all that pain and suffering comes from the physical realm, death transcends all that unless one lived a life attached to materialism and worldy posessions

im not going to give a "so this is how it really is" answer.i hate that. no one can know for sure in my opinion, not until you die or find enlightenment in this life. and enlightenment i believe is different for every single person.. because it is personal . i think what happens might be what is expected to happen, im of the thought that we shape our own rrealities

it also depends on what you see as hell...

the idea of hell for me would be to be trapped here on earth.. through cycles callled reincarnation stuck in bodies that undergo all sorts of pain forever. i hope at some point we are free of that cycle, that attachment. i have ideas of hell, but im not being pushed into believing things because of my concept of hell. i think if it does exist, there are ways of getting out of it. i dont believe in permanence. if there was such a thing as permanence... then existence simply wouldnt exist. everything exists because of motion. the idea of being stuck in one place for all eternity takes away the underlying force of everything existing.. therefore hell cant exist. an unchangin force cannot exist in our reality

everytime i tell my parents im not a christian i dont believe this christ person died for everyone and came back to life with the promise of salvation.. they ask"what if youre wrong and condemned to hell for all eternity".. **** their god is supposed to be one of forgiveness... i think being shipped to hell would make a believer out of me. why would a god of forgiveness forsake a believer to such a horrible place? any god who would do that is not any god i want to give my allegiance, will, and soul to.

religion is a created idea anyway, doesnt even matter how old. there are probably seeds of truth... of things that actually happened.. and people make their own interpretations in hopes of shaping the world and impacting it.

the bible is certainly silent on America. Yet as we try to decipher what went into the hearts and minds back then there is quite a disagreement between how devout they were. At the very least some of them were extremely dedicated and some others were certainly involved with mysticism and the whole masonic order stuff. You see God is full of mercy and grace and often will say judge England with a nation that is in rebellion. The English had it coming and the Americans were far from perfect but if you Take the laws of blessing and cursing that God applied to Israel we can see that once you have gained the blessings they are only maintained by following the precepts of righteousness. We have now departed fully and if you are willing to read Leviticus 26 and Duet 28 you can see the specific promises. The US has never been in a more precarious plight and it coincides precisely with leaving the things that incur blessing and embracing the things that bring a curse. I think that this is much more than a coincidence but just put it out there for you to consider. God is certainly not silent of Jericho...he sights the pagan practices and the infanticide they did...the conquest of the Indians was one thing but how many Indians did actually become Christians in this period. Remember God saved Rahab and all her house because she believed and confessed that the God of Israel. As the Indians may have had a decent society; they according to scripture would have been from one of the sons of Noah and left the tradition and embraced an earth based spirituality. there closeness with the earth is cool but it is different than closeness with the creator; God does not love the colonist more than the Indians and the winners and losers in war according to God's perspective are different than ours, Look at WW2 no one can say that God chose Germany over Israel. yet through this atrocity the nation of Israel was reborn. We can not sit and judge history and accurately understand the hows and whys things happen.

Some Christian faiths, such as Calvanists, teach that God has chosen prior to birth, those who will be saved. What we do on earth is preordained, and we have no choice.

Catholics teach that those who have not come to Christ, through no fault or neglect on their own part will go to heaven.

I'm a Pagan, and believe in reincarnation, so I have no worry of any hell. I find hell to be a means of control, a tool to convert through fear. I've met NO Christians who did not use fear of hell as a tool for conversion. At best, you'll hear "aren't you afraid of what will happen when you die if you don't accept Christ?"

I also like the way the Native Americans think about this issue. They believe that when a person dies, they are closer to us than when they lived. When they lived, the closest we could get is to touch. In death, they becom part of the air, part of the water, part of the earth. Our beloved dead are above, beneath, within and around us.

A book I've recently been reading is by Starhawk, called "The Pagan Book of Living and Dying". It's an excelent book of meditiations, philosophy and thought that's worth looking at if you wish to understand a Pagan perspective on death.

--Dee

First of all this is easy to answer!

it is written that ALL PEOPLE are saved. except the sons of perdition.

it also says that if you are in gods hands, there is no way! that the enemy can take you out of his hands.

it is also written that salvation is free, therefore it is written elsewhere that though a person were in HELL and he called upon the name of Jesus, he would be saved, and live even as he were were alive in the flesh.

in some circumstance people are reanimated and given a second chance in mortal life. I personally have seen several forms of heaven and a couple different types of hell and walked out of my body having a form of life in the spirit worlds seeing angels and aparitions too. I once stopped breathing and heard a knock at the door and got up out of bed and walked into the next room and beheld a spirit being, very much like an angel floating just above the ground through the OPEN/Closed door in the next room. I didnt think anything of it until i after i went back to bed and layed down and had to force AIR back into my lungs. and when i heard the knock at the door again i got up to find a 13 year old child looking for Our common freind.

Yes, grand-dad is in hell lets be honest here; no offense man but he is in the same place that you, and I are going to go when we die.

I'm like you a non-believer and I've read the bible and know that the old testament is the most gruesome-violent religious non-sens out there today that's why it sells (if it bleeds it leads) ,Why are the Christians, Jews, and Muslims so bloody? its like a culture of pirates or thugs that wrote that those terrible texts.

The new testament is a little better some nice stuff; Jesus healing the sick but also condemning you, grandpa, and me, all to hell.

To be honest, I think its all just superstition. when your dead your dead! You can use religion in your life time to oppress or you can just stop believing the oppressors.

David Hume said "We act on faith, then, not Knowledge. We do not know for sure, we are agnostic." You seem to me not to be agnostic because you are going on "knowledge" not faith. To answer your question, regardless of religion, anyone who does not believe in Christ and go through Him for forgiveness is going to hell.

religions were started by persons whos only desire were to be closer to our creater those being have left this world they help us find that road religions were supposed to unite not divide , if you will do anything for god he shalldo anything for you ,there is no perfect religian like there is no one perfect BE TRUE TO GOD AND HE WILL BE TRUE TO U

all this heaven and hell stuff is part of a relgion that we created, to scare us into behaving appropriately and to make us feel better when bad things happen. We just die, thats it. Nothing more.

Hi, GOD (Allah) bless you with HIS guidance and lead you to the straight and right path of HIS mercy amen.

If you have some spare time, please visit the under given link for further study.

www.islamtomorrow.com and www.sultan.org

Read Quran to have salvation