What is an Iraq War victory at this point?

- Iraq is secure and governing itself

- America, whether fully out or not, has some dignity left

- Iraq is peaceful enough for reconstruction to happen

- Eventually, victory means it is a solid member of the international community - not a basket case, not a threat, and not a focus of problems - but a responsible, prosperous country.

- Way eventually - if I can book a trip there as a tourist, I'll know that victory was achieved.

- PS: I wouldn't say I'm "pro-war". I thought it was a huge roll of the dice. As I see it, we started it, we need to finish it up properly. We'll see if we can do it.

As far as war goes, I think the victory was so decisive, no one really knew the "war" is over. Militarily, the U.S. (and a few others) took out Iraq's defense capabilities rather quickly.

The problem that remains is a political one, and the military is expected to perform most of the action. A victory in Iraq means political stability, which will lead to and end to the sectarian violence.

As a separate note, terrorists are flocking to the area - but I see this as a positive element. I would much rather have terrorists expending effort on trained soldiers than on citizens in U.S. civilian infrastructure (of course we're not the only ones suffering from this).

As for a strategy, which some have said there is none, you can find it at http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq_nation...

The problem is that this "strategic document" is not as much a strategy as a vision. We known what victory is, its just a matter of getting there. Strategy has been decidedly absent.

I'm sure you would prefer answers from pro-war people only - just one of many reasons why you'll never understand "an Iraq War victory" is not and never has been a possibility.

I'm tempted to say "a fanstasy". But to be more fair, an American victory would have to mean (by definition) that post-war Iraq was better for the US than pre-war Iraq. We know that pre-war Iraq was:

-not a military threat

-not a particularly important haven for terrorism (any more than the typical developing country)

-had relatively high oil production, though lower than before the first war because of equipment degradation

-was headed by a dictator, who (i) worked against US interests in the region as much as he could (though not militarily), (ii) killed tens of thousands of people over his three decade year rule, but (iii) was in control and predictable

So an American victory would have to improve on these things. It obviously can't improve on the first two, since it can't get better than having no WMDs and no Al-Qaeda. It can improve on the oil situation, if US money transforms the domestic oil industry. It can also improve on the last point, provided that a less repressive, pro-American regime is able to exert power over the whole country.

Now, having looked at all that, here is why it will not happen:

-The US presence in Iraq has created an enormous energy for terrorism. If you are al Qaeda, it's easy to lure terrorist recruits if your enemy is occupying muslim land.

-The US presence has also created and armed various non-terrorist insurgent groups that all want power. Make no mistake about it: they are fighting each other in a low level civil war right now. (Low level, by, say, Yugoslavia standards. Not so low level if you compare to many other civil wars in history).

-The insecurity that has resulted from all the insurgent groups has made it difficult for the central government to control the country.

-The weakness of the government means that it may not necessarily survive. One of the smaller power groups might take over, or the country might split up. Either way, it means the "predictability and control" factor under Saddam is now gone. It would be fine to have a somewhat unpredictable but stable democracy in Iraq, but this is not happening at the moment. So who knows how Iraq will behave in the region from now on? Who knows if it will become a threat to so-called moderate middle eastern states?

-Infrastructure (especially for oil) is not generally improving, so even that piece of the puzzle is a failure.

-Finally, if we are to judge things simply on lives lost, all of the above comes at the cost of tens of thousands of lives lost over a much shorter period than Saddam's reign of terror.

at this point, no one knows.

bush has never really outlined what victory means in anything other than jingoistic jargon and advertising slogans.

generally speaking, punch lines don't win wars.

when a reporter asked the question of tony snow in a recent press briefing 'what is the president's plan for victory in iraq' snow childishly told the reporter to 'zip it.'

again, 'zipping it' is also not a plan for iraq.

i will bet that there are no truly serious answers to this - but plenty of repetition of talking points.

i don't see how anyone could know when this has never been told to the american people...

ok shall we start up with some thing truthfully measurable and tangible. i could say a victory and Iraq could be complete if there have been 0 casualties (by enemy action) for coalition forces infantrymen for a era of one hundred eighty consecutive days. Defeat could be an entire fall down of the present government and the branch of Iraq into distinctive sovereign international locations. the clarification i exploit that definition is phrases like reliable, reconciliation, political progression, and so on and so on and so on are all SUBJECTIVE phrases that are truthfully debated.

Victory for me is leaving and knowing we will not have to go back.

Victory is knowing that all our franchises have adequately taken over the whole nation and made nice catchy Arabic tunes for a TV that broadcasts whatever it wants.

Victory is leaving an organized body of Arabic's that will not make their country a podium to dislodge their ideas about how crazy we are in America.

Victory will always be knowing that my daughter will not have to defend her country against these people because her mother already did the job.

I dont think there is much chance of actually wining the war, maybe to an extent, we may win the "war" however the fighting wont stop, but remember these people have been fighting for thousands of years and it is their homeland we are in as guests or intruders (depending on the view of thoes people), think of it as if some one came to your town and killed people you knew, frieds or family, for right reasons or not, would you ever stop fighting?

Erm, victory is it being considered a victory so none of the bad guys can get cocky and attack us more. lol! Seriously, though. Functioning democracy would be nice, calming the country's sectarian strife and putting down the insurgency critical and defeating al-qaida in Iraq a non-negotiable MUST.