Hinduism ~ Why meditation on the formelss god is almost impossible..?

Human mind is always innovative and always in search any target, physical or abstract(subtle). Regarding subtle (formeless) it won't get involved for more time and within fraction of seconds, it turns to another sight or thought. To keep the mind stable at particular target, we should provide such thing which we have perceived anytime in the past or heard of it and could have picuturised distinctly. When such target is made available and some charm, effulgence, divinity is addede to it, mind rests on it and we can give more feeding of divine thoughts, chants, small video clips for its entertainment. It will get more and more involved in it. We can not concentrate on a sky of our house or particular place we have visited but we can very well visualise any cupboard, window, chair, picture in our house or waterfall, temple we have seen at other place. Hence any target is must. Now we have decided to provide target to mind then select such target that mind will have interaction with it and it will try to take the form of that target. When house, mind will become house and possess many things like it. Think mountain, mind will take its form. Hence selecty beloved God, His picture or statue, mind will take its form and will try to analyse it thoroughly. Mind will try to get its good virtues, thoughts, deeds and all. Hence we are given idol-worship.

Hi,

To answer this question let us first see what we are dealing with here:

God, who IS formless, and who has manifested himself in various forms and ways to benefit its creation.

Man, who is in awe of God but cannot grasp the concept in its entirety, and who is surrounded by maya.

Now if the man in such a situation is told to meditate on the formless one it shall be like giving a child a drop of an apple essence and ask it to enjoy the taste of eating an actual apple.

Hinduism recognized this inherent problem of an average human being in understanding the Formless One, and came up with a solution of meditating upon the Vyakta properties of the Avyakta, thereby developing the meditational skills of the individual and at the same time emphasising that the object of meditation is beyond the form being meditated upon. In time with practice and gaining knowledge about the One it becomes easier for an individual to know and meditate upon the Formless One.

Now is when the individual can enjoy the feelings of actually eating an Apple just by the thought of an apple. One need'nt even have to have a drop of the essence.

Going directly to meditating upon the Formless one is like wanting to step on the 11th stair while one is still on the 1st.

Hope this helps.

Thanks

It is because we have a mind that relies on the 3D physical. Our mind attaches to anything that has form. It does not know how to attach anything without form. So that is why we have forms of God such as dieties or gurus to help give us a form for us to meditate on. Their purpose is to help carry us towards the formless aspect of God. They are the bridge to God.

We meditate on the guru or diety until we are taken to a point when their form is no longer needed. By then our minds will have been developed advancely to be able to focus on the formless God.

My guru Amma says we should take these steps in order:

bhakti, concentration, meditation. The bhakti we do purifies our mind first and makes it focus more on the form. Then when we have increased our concentration on the form on a regular basis to the point when it becomes automatic then it is a good time to start meditating because in order to meditate we need to be able to focus on the form. A wandering, untrained mind will interfere with our ability to meditate. It must be trained first so bhakti is a great tool for the concentration. That is what I'm doing now. I'm working on my concentration at the moment until I feel that I am mentally ready for meditation.

you always ask difficult questions. Think of persons like me who have very little knowledge.

People misinterpret that meditation is concentration on formless God (Nirakara). Gita says that one cannot concentrate on formless God (Avyakthahi Gatih). The meditation of formless God becomes true if one concentrate on the true knowledge of God. Veda says that true knowledge is the real form of the Lord (Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahma). Knowledge is formless. Therefore the formless God means only the true divine knowledge about the Lord. This is the correct interpretation of Sankaras philosophy. The great ancient Vedic sages sat in the formless meditation and this statement means that they concentrated on the divine knowledge (Brahma Jnana), which was expressed as Upanishaths in their mutual discussions (Satsanga).

My Dear Brother,

You have stated that In Bhagavath Geeta Lord Krishna in 12:5 has stated ''Meditation on the Formless god is almost impossible.''

I am sorry to differ with you.Please carefully read it again ,Is there a word IMPOSSIBLE there in sloka?

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so, Impossible is not a proper word I think.

Kleysho adhikarastheshaam !!

Avyaktaasakta cheytasaam !!

Avyaktaa hi gatir duhkham !!

Deyhavadbhiravaapyatey !!

It is the slokam..

The word used by the Lord is '' Avaapyatey.''meaning possiple with high difficulty....not impossible.

for whom? For those that have some affection to their body.

So unless one completely transcends his senses and loses the sense or perception of his physical frame , this meditation is POSSIBLE.

Lord emphasises it is highly difficult...since to reach that stage it is highly difficult without very good Saadhana and will power .

So it is not IMPOSSIBLE but IT IS POSSIBLE WITH VERY HIGH DIFFICULT SAADHANA (Kasta Sadhayam).

Let me add here that in the same Bhagavath geeta please read from 24th sloka to 27th sloka in chapter 6.

Here Nirgunopaasana is described .and in 28th sloka

it is reiterated that '' if one does saadhana like this (nirguno paasana) he will obtain Paramatmapraapti roopa+ Atyaanandam.'' meaning he will realise the ultimate and the ultimate bliss.

Hope you agree with me.

Plz refer GEETA once more with heart. Lord Krishna never told worship formless/with form, attributeless/with, and avaykta/without--- and HE never told to worship me, He says love me. That's why he sent Uddava as guru to teach gopikas how to love Him. He says dont seeck result/progress, gohead. And also told in every thing I'm (Lord Krishna) is there, but nothing is in Me, then where is question arise form and formless?. God has no form , no attribute, no mind nothing. Then who told it is impossible to experience Him.It is impossible to reach Him, b/c He has no form. Every thing is possible when He is in you/with you, So love Him remembrance him

Sir,

A normal humand mind has been engineered so that it has to be given a form - some dimensions to be able to preceive it.

Dimensionless Identitiy is a non exstant fact for it - just like your pc which has not been able to understand a command fro which it has not been programmed.

This programming of mind does come , once we start from the dimensional identities and proceed further towards multi dimensional or even dimensionless.

In short its a practice which come with time , experience, guidance , training and consistency.

Blessings

Aumji, Yajur Ved (32:3) says:

"Na tasya pratima asti"

"There is no image of him."

Then why are we bent on creating images of God. We, with our limited imagination try to give form to God who is beyond our comprehension.

Usually people give the argument that God has created us like unto him. That is the reason why, I feel, people tend to give him a form which is close to humans. But I beg to differ. I think what is meant, by the sentence that God has created humans like unto him, is that God has created us pure and sinless like unto him. Later in our life we lose our innocence and go further away from this likeness of God.

I think because the minds are programmed to keep a certain image in the mind that people find it impossible to meditate or even pray to a formless God.

We Muslims, because we are taught from the beginning to pray (and yes lot of us meditate too) to a formless God find it easier to concentrate and pray to the God of whose form we have absolutely no knowledge. I hope you understand.

because there is no formless god in reality. formlessness is just one of the principle of lord.

Krishna, being the absolute principle, Has effulgence spread over, which is called Brahma Jyoti.

This is the formlessness that yogis meditate on this Jyoti, and also will eb successful but very hard.

It is of prime importance to understand the following :

One can achieve liberation and success, by meditating on principle of Lord, The closer the principle is , faster and easier is one's achievement.

But one who concentrates on Lord himself, in his absolute form, reaches him the fastest. This is the fastest and the shortest and also the best way possible.

I can give some excerpts from scriptures, but i do not wish to make post lengthy and difficult to read, so this is the understanding in short.

[Edit]

Sorry aum, this post will get lengthier, i cannot help but give you this :

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"The brahma-jyoti, the non-differentiated marginal plane, is the source of infinite jiva souls, atomic spiritual particles of non-differentiated character. The rays of the Lord's transcendental body are known as the brahma-jyoti, and a pencil of a ray of the brahma-jyoti is the jiva. The jiva soul is an atom in that effulgence, and the brahma-jyoti is a product of an infinite number of jiva atoms."

"Generally, souls emanate from the brahma-jyoti which is living and growing. Within the brahma-jyoti, their equilibrium is somehow disturbed and movement begins. From non-differentiation, differentiation begins. From a plain sheet of uniform consciousness, individual conscious units grow. And because the jiva is conscious it is endowed with free will. So, from the marginal position they choose either the side of exploitation or the side of dedication."

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-- deito

It is due to lack of concentration. Our mind is a devil's workshop. Overcome the negative thinking and develop moral and mental powers. No doubt this is very difficult. But if you can achieve this, meditation in any form is possible.