"Law and order derives from judeo-christian values"?

So then, necessarily, for the 3000 years of recorded history prior to Judaism, there was no law nor any order.

Law and order has no need for any values at all. If the barrel of a loaded gun is pressed against a persons forehead it is extremely likely that that person will behave in a lawful and orderly manner.

Never confuse law and order with justice because they are vastly different ideas.

No, they do not.

Why Christians Must Steal From Secular Morality:

http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/submissions/steal_...

Christians must steal their moral rules from secular morality. They have no choice, as the Bible does not offer a moral system, it only offers a series of contradictory commands and a supposed threat of punishment in the "afterlife" for not following them - a punishment that is given equally to all violators - whatever the sin.

The Bible does nothing and can do nothing towards inculcating moral behavior on its own. Christians must steal from secular moral systems, and then merely graft their 'God threats' on top of this moral system. This is necessary. And the reason for this is simple: there is no morality in the Bible and there can be no morality in the Bible, because the Bible holds that 1) ALL 'sins' are equivalent (destroying any moral sense) AND 2) all moral behavior is immaterial, because works cannot save a person, AND finally all people are damned from birth.

In reality, Christians realize that some actions are more moral than others. They realize that moral actions exist in a hierarchy, and that rape is far worse than stealing a pencil. Yet the Bible holds that all 'sins' are equal, as all deserve the same punishment.

Christians also realize that humans can be moral agents... they expect moral behavior from others, and they view their own children as something to value. Yet the Bible holds that man is worthless, that he cannot be a moral agent, and that his sole salvation comes from grace. However, since Christians realize, implicitly, that all of these these points are obviously, prima facie false, they must steal from secular systems, that hold that 1) man obviously has a value 2) all 'sins' are obviously not equivalent and 3) a person cannot be held to be doing anything 'immoral' without intent.

* * *

Origin of the 10 commandments:

http://www.atheistalliance.org/outreach/news-2002_...

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/ten_com...

Morality Without God:

http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/cohen.html

Morals Without Gods:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=l...

In part, but that's not the whole truth. Every society must have laws in place to protect that society. Even pagan cultures knew this. However, Christian and Jewish law must follow the Ten Commandments above all other laws.

I thought that law and order (in today's present form) were derived from the polytheistic Greek and Romans? Maybe I'm a little lax on my history...

Yes, certainly. ALL LAWS represent SOMEONES morality, therefore the question is not a question of legislating morality, but whose morality are we going to legislate?

When our founding fathers used the terminology "laws of Nature and Natures God" where do you think that phrase came from? It wasn't Thomas Jefferson. It was Sir William Blackstone, author of Commentaries on the Law. Blackstone was SO WIDELY read by our founders that he may be referred to as the FATHER of American Jurisprudence.

This statement isn't controversial at all when you consider that ALL OF WESTERN CIVILIZATIONS laws are derived from the Ten Commandments.

Not only are all laws representative of someone's morality, but religion and politics are really the same subject, since religion defines how to live life and politics makes laws to govern it. Separation of church and state is unconstitutional and a pipe dream.

Please excuse the Idiots wearing black robes who think they're in charge. They will meet their Judge.

In His Service,

John the Baptist

No it doesn't. Great civilisations had law and order long before the jewish and christian religions were invented

Did you know that the crime rate in Saudi Arabia is quite low?

that, as usual, they are full of ****. they may control it now, but it didn't start with them.

That's just silly.