Can we agree that Christianity is based on "faith," and not evidence or reason?

I don't understand it.

Christian, "Look at all this evidence."

Atheist, "I don't see any."

Christian, "You would if you had faith."

Atheist, "So I need to believe in something before I have a reason to believe in it, no thanks."

Christian, "Well, you have faith too. You have faith that there is no God."

Atheist, "And since you disagree, all you've proven is that faith proves nothing."

No, I can't agree with your statement. I believe that God tells the whole truth & nothing but the truth. Therefore, I believe that where His Word touches on history, science, etc. it tells the truth about those things.

Now, before you start quoting a bunch of verses that aren't meant to be taken literally or start calling me a "flat earther", I am not a "literalist"/fundamentalist. Neither am I a liberal who compromises on things like biblical YECism.

Most of the facts in the Bible are falsafiable & have been proven to be historical fact (e.g. Christ Jesus' birth, life, suffering, death & yes, even His resurrection). They may not fit with a "science" that presupposes naturalism/materialism, but they are nonetheless historically factual.

Here's a good archive of a radio talk show about this very thing "Faith based on Facts": http://www.kfuoam.org/Issues_ETC/ie_09_25_07.htm.

BTW, science does not depend on an a priori commitment to naturalism/materialism. It operated & still operates just as well under a presupposition of supernaturalism. To deny this fact you would have to deny yourself & all your loved ones the luxury of the MRI which was invented by a YECist.

See, if I conceded to what you're saying, I would be like the Mormon who despite the historical facts believes according to the Book of Mormon, (e.g. believes that Jesus came to America, that there was a tribe of Jews that lived in America, etc., etc.), or according to their other literature that Joseph Smith was given a special revelation from angels (unfalsafiable claims). I'm simply not going to do it.

True Christianity is not like that. It doesn't ask the person to put their brain on a shelf when walking into the church or in order to believe in Christ Jesus. It doesn't ask you to deny facts. It's truth claims are falsafiable. My beliefs are based on historical facts. In all reality, the only matter of faith in the Christian religion is the fact the Jesus Christ died for *my sin*.

It is rather Evolution that asks us to deny the fact that death is our enemy & it entered into the world because of our own sin (original sin). The problem with that is that sooner or later, you are going to have to admit that death has caused you pain & is indeed your enemy. It is rather your worldview that doesn't line up with the facts.

I pray that when the world has beat you down to the point you are at your rope's end you will not totally despair but that the Holy Spirit will cause you to remember that the pure Gospel is waiting to comfort you.

Some religions discourage the questioning attitude in regard to the soundness of their teachings. They advise their followers to follow their instructions without examination.

But it should be ,

Never embrace a doctrine when evidence stands against it, nor should one follow a principle without evidence.

If God wants a person to believe in a principle, He should make it clear and evident. He is the Most Fair and Just. He knows that belief is not a voluntary thing,

Our human knowledge comes from direct or indirect evidence, and it does not follow our own whim and will. An acceptable religious belief must be based on knowledge. When God wants me to know something, He should make such a knowledge possible by making its evidence available. Should He demand from me to believe something while evidence is standing against it, He would be asking me to do the impossible. This contradicts His justice.

"And follow not that of which thou hast no knowledge"

Let me first address the idea that Catholic dogmas and beliefs are not based on reason. Just because a truth is beyond the capacity of human reason does not mean that it is contrary to reason. Catholic doctrine is made known to us by revelation and is beyond the capacity of human reason. That does not mean that it contradicts reason but rather that it transcends reason. You cannot use reason to prove that someone loves you; the truth of someone’s love transcends reason. That does not mean that love is somehow contrary to reason.

It might help to clarify the Catholic understanding of faith and reason. Catholics should not depend on baseless faith. The Church encourages the use of reason because reason and faith are not mutually exclusive, as people sometimes assume, but rather complement one another. Pope John Paul II states this in his encyclical letter Fides et Ratio. Either reason or faith by itself is weakened by the absence of the other.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that God gives us external evidence of revealed truth that accompanies the internal working of the Holy Spirit (CCC 156). To go back to the example of a human lover, even though the truth of a person’s love transcends reason, you can use your reason to look for signs that someone loves you. Such signs might include what he says to you and how willing he is to sacrifice for you. In the same way, God gives us external evidence of his revelation so that we can see that it is rational to believe it.

Unfortunately, some Catholics do seem to focus more on the rules than on the reasons for the rules. The Church teaches that its moral guidelines are not the purpose of life but a means to a loving relationship with God. Just as a person who diets without understanding the goal of a healthy life is missing the point, so also a Catholic who views the Church’s commands as mere tasks to be completed is missing the point of why the moral law exists in the first place.

Nevertheless, without moral guidelines, we would not be able to reach that end, so the moral guidelines are essential. A doctor tells patients to eat healthily not for the sake of eating healthily but to bring them to health. But without a healthy diet, the patient could not become healthy. In addition to strengthening the will, following the Church’s moral rules makes us freer because those rules lead us to God, the source of all true freedom. To be open to God is to be truly free.

Amen, brother.

Whenever I point out that religion is irrational, the faithful take it as an insult. Seriously, I mean irrational in the literal sense of the word -- as in, not based on REASON.

It is a faith.

I respect it as a religion.

But I hate it when people start ranting that the 'Earth is Flat', 'Vaccination is Bad' and 'Evolution is False'.

Now don't get me started on Galileo!

As long as we can agree that atheism is based on faith too.

Otherwise I'll just be stuborn like you.

Read: Robert Sokowlowski "The God of Faith and Reason."

CCC 159 - Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth." "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."

Source(s):

Catechism Of The Catholic Church

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt3....

Christianity is baseless, yes. Faith flew planes into buildings, so it is not good enough either.