What do you think about taking god out of the pledge and other historical documents?

From a non-believers perspective--taking god out of historical documents--that can't be done--and shouldn't be. These are written documents that our country was based on reflecting the thoughts of the founding fathers. Whether we agree with all those thoughts or not is immaterial--they are historical and should be left is. Taking god out of the pledge, personally I preferred the pre-1950's pledge that did not contain that line (added by congress because of communism). It is wrong to make someone pledge to something they don't believe in. However--the supremes have ruled that it is voluntary and one does not have to say it--so I'm okay with that. In God We Trust on coins--okay by me--it is a generic deity and does not establish a federal relgion.

Prayer in schools--removing prayer in schools protects christians and nonchristians alike whether they realize it or not. If we included prayer in school then we'd have to have christian prayers on monday, moslem on tuesday, jewish on wednesday, wiccan on thursday, hindu on friday and so on. If we only allowed christian prayers run by the school--then cleary this would establish a special case by the government for christianity. YOu might say thats fine--then the moslems would argue before the supreme court that they shoudl be able to try crimes against moslems by sharia law--and that the special spot given christians with christian prayer in school is a precedent for the government supporting the needs of a particular religion. Better for the schools to offer a "quiet time" in which the student may pray or do sums or do nothing at all--for in doing so it protects not only religions but protects society from becoming a hodgepodge of religious exclusions or inclusions. The manger scene or ten commandments on public grounds--the same logic applies--if you make special dispensation for christians utilizing public grounds for these displays--then you set the very dangerous precedent of allowing other relgions to request special dispensations as well. Becauase of this the supremes have correctly decided that either you include all religions in relgious displays on public property and you include all relgions in state (school led_ prayer) or you include no religion at all in state funtions. It was never an attack against christianity per se on the part of the supreme court--the supremes were protecting american society from the often unexpected and unwanted corollary arguements to setting such precedents.

Which 'historical documents' contain God?

The Declaration of Independence, which was a political document designed to stir people up.

Not the US Constitution, which explains how the government should work.

There's been a great deal of mis-information taught in some churches about the history of the founding of the USA, including the mistaken idea that God was part of the founding.

Call me un-American, but as a follower of Jesus, I no longer pledge my allegiance to anything other than the Lord. So I don't care what the words say, I follow Jesus, not a country, and certainly not empty words of a pledge.

I happen to know more about this than just about anyone else responding . . . I'm a pastor, a seminary student, and the author of a book about the founding of the nation.

When was god taken out of the pledge?

I seem to recall there is no mention of god in the pledge that my grandfather said before taking three bullets at Normandy.

Are you saying that it was okay to change that document?

I would never disrespect an author so much as to change their words, against their bloody consent

Edit: By the way, here's a history of the pledge from a right-wing wacko. Even HE knows undergod wasn't in it!

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

Quoth him:

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change.

Edit: I wonder if you're enough of a grown-up to admit you were wrong.

I have no desire to see the word "god" taken out of historical documents.

I have no problem seeing the Pledge of Allegiance being restored to its original version; however, I honestly don't care because I don't have to say it, and, in the words of Lewis Black, kids are too young to even understand what they are saying.

The only thing I want to see is the word "god" taken off of money. I want this for two reasons:

1) Not all American citizens believe in god.

2) What purpose does having "in god we trust" serve by being on currency? It's nonsensical.

Prayer in a school-sanctioned format didn't belong in school. That was what was removed. I will never stop a student at my publicly-funded college from praying in class as long as it is not disruptive.

Who are "they"?

Who wants the National Anthem put in Spanish? I've heard nothing of that.

John Adams [Nov 4, 1796] wrote ". . .the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion. . ."

Is this clear enough for you?

Thomas Jefferson [Jan 1, 1802] wrote: "I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law represpecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free expression thereof' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."

What part of separation of Church and State do you not understand?

Our US Court system later used this quote to confirm this aspect of the meaning of the First Amandment.

I think the whole thing is irrelevant.

I am a Christian, and taking "words" out of allegiances and documents will in no way take "Christ's love" out of my heart.

Taking "public prayer" out of schools is SO overplayed. What should we do, have sucessive days for Jewish prayer, then Catholic prayer, then Islam, etc? Get real!

It is my understanding of prayer that it is a communication from my heart and NO ONE can take prayer away from me, whether I am in school or anywhere else.

Let us stop worrying about such triffles as this, and start worrying about putting prayer and Christ BACK into our lives. (Or whatever name you give to God. And if you are agnostic or athiest, perhaps you can contemplate the efficacy of love.)

You don't have to say it! When I was in the army and you take oaths you have an option to say like affirm instead of i swear. And at the end of the enlistment oath it says so help me god. You can skip that. I don't mind the pledge or kids praying in school as long as it isn't forced. I do however have a BIG problem with the ten commandments at court houses and things like that which are more of a violation of sep. church and state in my eyes. Like another guy said pick your fights. As long as people are allowed to believe what they want and aren't coereced to do or say things they aren't cool with. But when religious people get pushy like the commandments at the courthouse it is outrageous in my book. It is a violation of the constitution right there for all to see. They are actually proud of it. Seems like if alot of these types had there way we would be burning witches again.

prayer does not belong in public school. If you want your child to pray in class, send them to a private parochial school.

Freedom of Speech is a constitutional right. If a group wishes to translate the national anthem in any language, record it, and broadcast it, they are free to do so. However, the Official National Anthem is still in english, and will most likely never change.

Taking the word God out of the pledge of allegiance would simply return the Pledge to its original version. The "under God" was added in the 1950s, by an act of Congress.

I think the historical documents should remain untouched.

As to the Pledge of Allegiance, it originally did not include the words, "under God." They were added by Congress during the Eisenhower administration. I have no objection to keeping those words or removing them, but the pledge is easier to recite without them. Perhaps if the pledge were restored to its original form, more teachers would include it in their day's activities in classrooms. I would approve of that.

I'm all for it. We should especially take it out of the pledge, off our paper money, and even off from our coins. It was put there unconstitutionally and it should be gone. When will the U.S. grow up and live by the ideals that it so loudly shouts but does not follow? With liberty and justice for **ALL**

Edit:

Sounds like you're young and just repeating what someone's told you by your inability to form a coherent statement so I'll assume that you don't know that you're repeating lies when you talk about those who founded our country. They were in no way Christian. Not Washington, Jefferson, Paine, Madison, or Franklin. They were brilliant people who believed in the enlightenment. Sorry, but they like us atheists, had examined Christianity, found it wanting and had rejected it. Please read and educate yourself rather than just trusting what other people tell you. There are usually at least two sides to every position--if you can at least understand the other side you will either strengthen or change your position.

Na na I was 14 years old when the words "under God" were added to the the Pledge! I remember! You however were probably not even a gleam in your daddy's eye then, if even your daddy was born at that time! I have nothing against taking those twowords out of the Pledge!, since they weren't there in the original version recognized by the US Congress, in 1942!

The Pledge of Allegiance

The Pledge of Allegiance was first published for Columbus Day, on September 8, 1892, in the Boston magazine The Youth's Companion. It was written by a member of the magazine's staff, Francis Bellamy. The publication of the Pledge, and its wide redistribution to schools in pamphlet form later that year lead to a recitation by millions of school children, starting a tradition that continues today.

The original text is: "I pledge of allegiance to my flag and the Republic for which it stands - One nation indivisible - with liberty and justice for all."

Several minor changes to the text, including changing "my flag" to "to the Flag of the United States of America," were made over time, some "official" and some less so.

In its 1940 Gobitis decision (310 US 586), the Supreme Court ruled that schools can compel students to recite the Pledge.

The U.S. Congress recognized the Pledge officially in 1942, and in 1954 added the phrase "under God" to the text.

In 1943, the Supreme Court overturned Gobitis and ruled in its Barnette decision (319 US 624) that school children could not be forced to recite the Pledge as a part of their school day routine.

Today, the wording of the Pledge of Allegiance is set in the US Code, at 4 USC 4. The text of that section is below.

If you would like more information on the U.S. flag, I suggest that you visit USFlag.org, an excellent site with lots of resources concerning the flag and its evolution.

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The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.

Emphasis added