The Bible supports Predestination which disproves the Bible?

OK, let's approach this from the point of view (fallacious in my opinion) that Calvinistic predestination is a fact. In other words, I will assume that your statement

"The Bible supports Predestination"

is factual, and that there is no leeway in this matter.

Now, what are the logical problems with your contention?

1) there is absolutley no reason for god to create us

Did he need a reason?

2) why does god need people to love him?

He doesn't. He's God.

3) If god is omniscent, as the bible states then predestination must be true.

This is not logical. Predestination is the doctrine teaching that a person - regardless of his actions here on earth - is already "predestined" to a certain fate in the afterlife. The alternate doctrine - free will - is the doctrine teaching that a person's actions in this life determine his fate in the next. God's omniscience is not at issue with either doctrine. However, as stated initially, I will continue under the assumption that predestination is proven.

4) the bible cannot be true without predestination, and the bible cannot be true if predestination were to exist.

This point has not been demonstrated. You have not mentioned *how* predestination is contradictory to the bible.

5) the reason predestination disproves the bible's depection of god is because god created us to love him. he gave us free will so it would be true love.

This doctrine is, to the best of my knowledge, not scriptural. It is true that God wants us to love him, but there is no indication (in scripture) that he needs such love or that he created us for this purpose. Indeed, the doctrine of "free will" is not, strictly speaking, scriptural, although it is scripturally based (as is the contrary doctrine of predestination).

6) if he created everything knowing everything would happen, then he created everything so it would happen.

This, again, does not proceed logically. He created everything *knowing* that everything would happen does *not* imply that he created everything *so* that everything would happen. He could just as easily created everything so that only *one* thing would happen, regardless of all the other things that happened, and he could even have created everything for the sake of creating, *regardless* of what would eventually happen. There are a plethora of other "reasons" we could conjecture for the act of creation.

7) Also the only way for those things not to happen is for god's intervention. In that case our lives are completely controlled by god, and we have no free will whatsoever.

Again, you confuse predestination with omniscience. If I *know* that you are going to be hit by a bus tomorrow, and I do nothing to warn you, that does not indicate even the *slightest* bit of control (on my part) over your actions. You still have free will, it's just that, assuming that I know your future, your free will will lead you to a definite end. Regardless, my knowledge of your future, in and of itself, gives me no control whatsoever over your choices.

8) therefore the bible is wrong. God cannot give us free will, and give us no free will at the same time.

Clearly, not proven.

Jim, http://www.jimpettis.com/bibles/

Do not let peoples misunderstanding of God's adminstration for redemption lead you to a false conclusion about God.

Predestination is true and free will is an illusion. I don't see how this contradicts the Bible. The Bible contains the word of God. The fact that there is predestination, how does that prove the non existence of the Christian God? Your logic does not make any sense.

The truth is that we all existed in heaven before the creation of the physical realm. Some of us were decieved by Satan's scheme to overthrow God (Father and Mother) and we joined Satan's side. All of us were cast out of heaven due to our sin and are now confined in the realm of space and time, destined to die and face judgement for our spiritual sin.

Since God had pity on us who were decieved, he came in the flesh and died as high priest so that we can return back to our home.

All of this has been explained by second coming Christ who has come and revealed all truth. If you want to know the truth, you will find it.

Where does the Bible state that God needs people to love Him?

The Bible states that the purpose of people is to worship Him, but it does not say that God needs people to worship Him.

As far as predestination goes, God is omniscient and omnipresent, therefor He knows all things about all times past and future. This however doesn't mean that He controls the actions that you take, but only that He knows what they will be. In His perfect love he is able to keep himself from interfering with your right to choose. That said, God works in people's lives to help them choose to proclaim Him and love Him.

You can't disprove the Truth. If you could, the entire universe would cease to exist.

Predistination is ALWAYS based on foreknowledge.

God KNOWS everything that will happen tomorrow. That does NOT mean that he MAKES everything happen. Foreknowledge is NOT predestination.

If you watch someone in a third story window drop a raw egg out of the window to the empty sidewalk and street below, you KNOW the egg will break - but you didn't make it break.

Predestination does NOT disprove God or the Bible!

Acts 2:23  Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God,

Romans 8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,

1 Peter 1:2  Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

You've only proven that you don't understand the nature of free will Or predestination. Try this: God exists beyond spacetime. Therefore your free will decisions are history to Him. God is no rapist, and He will not force anyone to love Him. You make your own bed, why complain when it's bed time?

i dont really see how predestination can disprove anything...i dont understand your question i guess

first, the rules of time dont apply to god. he is and always will be the same god...never changing.

second, i still dont see how the fact that there are prophesies in the bible debunks anything. sorry.

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*edit* snake you answered it perfectly. i could not have answered it better. god did not create us because he needs us to love him, but because HE loves US

Predestination disproves the Bible? How so? I'd say that it is a reflection of God's omniscience, as you point out, but how could it possibly disprove Scripture? Please elaborate.

Your understanding of predestination is not biblical. It is simply an opinion you have read or heard by someone who is ignorant.

youd be a calvinist i take it very unbiblical the puritans and such the originators of the first police state they put the taliban to shame

did you say something about predestination