Has anyone seen the unedited Joe the Plumber conversation?

Never actually saw it, but knew the gist of it. Now that I've seen it I'm even more convinced that Obama's plan will work out excellent for nearly every American, including myself.

So, if Joe is making $270K instead of $250K, his taxes go up to 36% on that additional $20K instead of 33%. And, 3% of $20K is $600. Or, $50 a month. Or, about $1.64 a day.

So, to pay for that expense, looks like Joe is only going to get to drink a 5-pack a day instead of a 6-pack.

Besides, I don't know how much you can grow a $270K business or hire new employees on $600 a year. But, my guess is: not much.

Yes I would still agree.

However, I saw that unedited version last night. Why in the hell did the media not play this in full!? It would have changed the entire story. What Obama said, was a lot better than what we were made out to believe. But, the whole spread the wealth statement stays true. He shouldn't have said it, and that's why we got the story.

I get your point though. Kind of makes you think doesn't it? If the media did this with this one clip, what else did they do? Better yet, what DIDN'T they do? Are these polls even legit? I question everything now.

Yes, Obama's numbers and examples were wrong. $250K is actually $200K according to Obama's Economic minion. About 60% of the small businesses make more than $250K gross according to the Small Business Association. 100% of the new jobs in the past 8 years are from Small business while the large corporations have been losing jobs. Obama's economic plan will sink the economy, but some people thing that is fair.

The only people that wouldn't agree with it are people that live under a rock and don't understand the first thing about simple economics and, more importantly, simple mathematics.

First, I have been middle-class all my live-long working days. My tax liability has gone proportionally DOWN over the last eight years, and my refund has gotten BIGGER.

Secondly... Obama is using economic speak to bull over the uneducated with that quip about "no capital-gains tax" for small businesses. To the average EMPLOYEE "capital-gains tax" is just a fancy business term that owners use for money they make. But in actuality it means income achieved when an asset or ownership is SOLD. A typical small businessman is in business to make money via "salary" or distribution of their equity called a "dividend"... NOT to sell the company a year or two after buying it, so Joe's still going to get the she-wads taxed on his income by Obama and will only receive a TAX-BREAK if he GOES OUT OF BUSINESS and sells. Yeah, that's good incentive for the economy, Obama's American dream: "You won't have to pay taxes as a business owner so long as you decide not to be a business owner and sell your company".

Thirdly, he talks about helping the Joe's-of-10-years-ago... by lowering their taxes while raising Joe's-of-today, with the sales pitch of helping old-Joe become new-Joe sooner... but what he doesn't tell you is that when Obama taxed new-Joe 10 years ago, new-Joe had to layoff old-Joe 8 years ago to make ends meet and today new-Joe doesn't exist... he's still old-Joe working 40+ hrs a week just to put food on the table. Some old-Joe's aren't even that lucky, since these taxes were implemented during a Recession thereby forcing the economy into a full blown Depression that lasted nearly 8 years with ever sky-rocketing unemployment. A good majority of old-Joe's are out of work standing in soup lines just hoping for some bread to feed his family. Think this is not true? FDR raised taxes all throughout the 1930's, prolonging the Great Depression into the 1940's and then was only saved by the economic boom of WWII. The actual stock market didn't recover until the 1950's. That's history, that's economy.

Fourthly, all of Obama's talk comes with the implication that the Rich simply pay the same taxes as you, and it's time they paid their share. But that's the neat thing about mathematics and the tax system... we all pay a percentage of our income so dollar for dollar the Rich ALREADY PAY MORE than the poor and middle-class. Even if the tax-rate was flat and the same for everyone the Rich would pay more, but the Rich not only pay more simply by the application of percentages. Their percentage RATE is higher than the poor and middle-class (note: 40% of the poor and middle-class don't pay any taxes at all).

So now that I have confused you with math-speak, I will spell it out for you. Here's the fact that Obama ignores just to get your vote; regarding that 5% that he TALKS about raising their taxes? Those wealthiest 5% of Americans possess 36% of the wealth in America, yet they pay 53% of the TAX DOLLARS. Not only that, but they are responsible for providing the majority of the other 64% of the wealth to the poor and middle-class. The truth is that nobody's getting a free ride in this country and the wealthier you become the more taxes you pay... even more than the share that you own. Those are the FACTS.

Fifthly, your president-to-be, OBAMA, is CONFUSED by the DIFFERENCE between a FLAT tax and a federal SALES tax. Joe suggested a FLAT tax (Steve Forbes ran on this issue). Obama started explaining a SALES tax.

FLAT TAX is an income tax with typically two tax rates. The simplest form would be to have a single rate at say 25% of income for any income in excess of $100,000, income below $100,000 would have a 0% tax rate--in other words, no taxes until you make more than $100,000. As well there'd be either a phase-range or simply a marginal application of these two rates.

SALES TAX is where people would be taxed on the acquisition of property, also known as a USE TAX. Typically, you'd have one basket of items (i.e. simple foods) that would be exempt from the sales taxes, thereby alleviating the tax burden on low-income individuals. Also, you might very well have two-tiers of sales tax... a standard tax for normal living expense items and a luxury tax for the more lavish items (a boat, jewelry, etc).

Obama started talking about a 40% sales tax... but he didn't mention that it would also be a VOLUNTARY tax... meaning you only pay taxes when you buy things... the more lavishly you live, the more taxes you pay to live lavishly... a hermit or the poor would pay practically no taxes as they would buy tax-free food items. And while it is 40% of the price of the item... it would be a LESSOR % of the INCOME that you pay now... plus YOU DECIDE what you pay the government in TAXES. Live simple=no taxes.

It does give context to the "share the wealth" comment. I have seen it and no, heck no, I do not agree with McCain anymore!

yeah funny how they can take a guy like Joe the plumber and turn him into a mascot for the McCain campaign

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gibL79XXSafYtZ...

this is a pathetic attempt to change the numbers

wow thank you very much, no i had not seen that before and wanted to. Thank you for giving us the link it was very imformative to me and explained a lot more than what i had just read about it.

And no i do not agree with McCain.

Never agreed with McCain, why is he complaining that his taxes are higher when he is making over $250,000 in profit every year. The raised taxes should be chump change.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUR!

Yes I saw it, and it still says the same thing,......Spread the wealth......socialism has never been so well explained.

Yes I would still agree with McCain.