Why use a harsh bit if the horse is trained properly?

Good question! If a person is changing to a harsher bit for more whoa control, I guarantee that that is not a person who has "good hands".

The only people who should ever be using leveraged bits are those whose hands and horses are completely capable of performing every movement in horsemanship on the simplest snaffle, or with no bit at all.

Highly trained horsemen, with highly trained horses, can achieve a level of precision through the use of a curb bit. The spade, which should always be custom made to fit the oral cavity of the individual horse that will wear it, only belongs in the hands of an expert and in the mouth of a horse that has been trained for years in preparation for it. Yet people buy them from catalogues and claim to have the education and knowledge to use them.

Buffy's account of the Vaquero methods is a good explanation of the preparation and expertise required to prepare for use of a bit such as the spade.

If you need leverage, you don't have good enough hands to be using it. Leverage bits are for refinement, not for fixing problems with bad training and bad horsemanship. The horse's mouth is not the brakes, and not the regulator of tempo.

In good hands, the shanks on a leverage bit vibrate the signals to the horse's mouth.....the leverage forces possible are never fully engaged.

I think a good rule of thumb is, if you don't know how to go through each stage of the process of training a horse to leg and seat cues and preparation for the transition from bosal to bit, or snaffle to curb, you probably should not be using a leveraged bit.

You can use whatever bit works well on him. I do not believe in such a thing as a "harsh" bit - as long as it's comfortable for the horse to carry in his mouth. Are you a rider that's light with her hands and doesn't yank the horse's face off? Or are you just starting and don't have steady hands yet - maybe use the bridle to balance with? That's what determines what type of bit is used on a horse for me. Anyway - Typically the higher the port - the harsher the bit is. Typically the longer the shanks - the harsher the bit is. The more bumps and things on the bit - harsher it is (like chain mouth pieces, ports, twisted wire). Also - the narrower the bit is in diameter- TYPICALLY the harsher it is. However, many horses find it easier to have a small thin bit in their mouths versus a giant thing that gags them. I would say definately no larger in diameter than 1/2"...and even that's pretty thick. Stainless steel is what most bits are made out of and is inexpensive. Copper and sweet iron help the horse salivate and can encourage the horse to be softer and enjoy the bit more. If you board your horse at a barn - before going out and buying bits (which are easily $50 each) I would ask friends and the owners of the stable if you can try their bits and see if you can find one that you like. Best Wishes!

I ride and show my reiners is a cathedral port mylar. Now this bit could be classified as harsh. However once a horse if finished what this type of bit gives you is a very light feel to the horses mouth. Since I do not want to look like I am cuing the horse this bit will give a feel to the horse with very little movement to my hand. If I used a snaffle or some light bit it would not have the same feel and I would need to move my hand quite a bit more to get the horse to respond if needed. However 95% if the time the horse will respond off your seat and legs more then the bit.

There are a lot of bits that fall into the category of "harsh" if you want to use that word, but just the same I have seen people make a plain snaffle "harsh" by yanking and cranking on a horses mouth. I personally have trained a few to a Spade bit ..your right, no horse is perfect and certainly no rider is either....I have used all sorts of shanked bits for WP including cathedral, correction port, mullen mouth long shanked, c-port, med port, spoons ect....it really all depends on the horse. But the reality is, you have to use a shanked bit if you want to show in a WP class, unless your horse is a junior...but the pressure is there to get them in a curb before 4....I like to see a well trained horse go through a progression of bits to refine your cues and retain softness but that doesnt mean I would ride a horse in that bit other than the show ring once Ive achieved what I wanted to see...I truly love the snaffle and always go back to it....I like to ride trails and when im not in a rail class, my gelding rides in a plain old copper mouth snaffle......I think that being educated about bits and knowing the mechanics makes you more responsible as you know what effects a certain bit has on your horse, just because a bit is advanced doesnt mean its evil....just means you need to be more responsible with it.

Oh and to PRS...I agree, and have stayed away from rail classes for that particular reason....The upper class of WP showing is coming around and are not placing the old "peanut rollers" anymore, judges are looking for more of a level topline nothing below the withers and a more comfortable gait, they have even incorporated a faster jog and lope in between the other gaits to get the horses to actually move out a little and be more true....Im hoping this trend really takes off as I would consider showing again.

I disagree with you, Mom. There ARE rider's who have good hands - and the definition of good hands lies between the horse and rider, not in opinion of person to person. Each horse is a unique individual with a unique ability to understand given cues. Each person is unique with their own subtleties about using a bit - together a horse/human combination are unique.

Additionally, people's opinions of response to the 'slightest touch' are varied - what's the response? Why not take your question one step further and say since some people can ride without bridles at all, why can't we all control our horses without bridles because all bits can be considered harsh if used improperly.

So I will tell you again that harshness of bit lies within the proper use of it - any bit can be harsh, some are more likely to be harsh in a wider range of hands than another - for example, a snaffle can be harsh in a new rider's hands. A spade-ported bit can be excruciatingly harsh in that same riders hands and only a slight bit harsh in an experienced riders hands. Likewise, if one takes a horse unstarted in a bridle bit, a snaffle can be very harsh - if a horse has been graduated to a ported bit then is put back in a snaffle, the snaffle can be harsher for him - it DOES really all depend on the rider AND the horse and the communication they've established (or haven't).

The idea behind moving up to a leverage bit - with shanks is that it takes less movement on the part of the rider to give a cue the horse can respond to. The idea is that the horse has been conditioned with the snaffle to respond, then a leverage bit is engaged to refine the communication. One must be careful how they view a leverage bit, however, because the fact of whether it's single jointed, multiple jointed or ported all play a role in how the bit feels in the horse's mouth.

Additionally, each horse's mouth is made different, they are not all the same - some have thicker tongues than others, some wider bars, etc. Think of it this way - put your finger on your tongue about in the middle as far back as you can and press down hard - how long can you hold that finger there and walk around until it's uncomfortable? Not long, huh? You are pinched and gagged. This is what a snaffle does - when the rider engages the reins, the two cheek pieces come closer together, the joint forms a point, the pint is driven down into the tongue and pulled back into the mouth, causing pinch and gag when fully engaged. As the horse progresses, if the rider is diligent and consistent with their hand cues, the horse learns to expect a certain cue to the mouth and responds before the bit is fully engaged.

Now do this - put your finger on your gum way back behind your teeth, press down hard and walk about - how long are you comfortable this way? Maybe not a long time, but I expect certainly longer than with finger on tongue. The idea is to transition a horse away from the pinch and gag 'threat' in your communications and teach him to respond by movement on the bars of the mouth which are less apt to be highly uncomfortable and still able to accept concise cues - the port in a bit is meant to allow the horse to move his tongue and swallow - if a roller or 3 piece mouthpiece, the same idea-there is far less pinch and gag action. When the horse is moved from a full snaffle to a slightly leveraged bit, they are learning to 'listen' with their bars - they transition to a bit that speaks totally thru movement on the bars then and the cue becomes refined as well as the response in the horse.

So the movement to a leverage bit is intended to communicate at a much higher level in certain disciplines or situations.

If one views bits in levels of harshness vs. how they mechanically work in the horse's mouth, they never truly get the picture about why we do what we do.

Finally, I'll tell ya the Vaquero way - Vaquero horsemen originated in Spain. Today they maintain fighting bull herds which are managed by man on horseback. The horse MUST be very refined in his ability to interpret his riders requests quickly and accurately in order to keep them both safe. So these horsemen start a young horse without a bit - they start in a thick bosal and work 'up' to a pencil, or very thin bosal - they do some simple ranch work, cattle herding, etc but are not fully bridle broke. Later, they pair the pencil bosal with the bridle bit and only the most capable, highly refined horses are ever trained to the point they can hold and use a spade mouthed, high ported bit - with those bits, just a slight finger movement can be a cue to which the horse responds perfectly and immediately - this response can get horse and rider out from between two fighting bulls, a failed response means death. These riders couldn't expect a snaffle bit to incur the same level of cue as these leveraged ported bits can. The snaffle is limited in it's ability to communicate. For most of today's riders,

I ride and train my horse in a full cheek snaffle. She is very responsive and light. I do work her in a curb bit as well because of the different touch because when I barrel race her, I need instant response and so use a tender touch gag bit. So, though my hands will be light, I will get a quicker response than if I were to run in a snaffle. I can't speak for everyone, but some barrel racers will use a bit with a port to keep the horse upright if he tends to keep his head too low around a barrel. Other types of bits have different uses. Maybe another horse needs a solid mouth bit because he tends to over bend. Again, these horses are so well trained I've seen them pack five year olds around without a wrong move, but at the speeds we compete at, you sometimes needs a tool to help your horse stay in the proper position. The more sensitive they are, the lighter you can be with a "harsher" bit so as not to interfere with your horse during a run. (If you ran in a snaffle and had to pull an extra stride before your horse felt it and responded to it, you could lose time rather than having the extra bit of bit in there and only having to lift your hand and touch the horse.) Hope this all made sense.

Then I suggest you learn as to why the horses are properly trained up to that point.

This is why uneducated ppl need to learn about bits and proper horse training.

When a horse is put into a bridled bit or a spade bit, it is because they are trained up to respond to it. They are trained to legs and seat and very little cues come from the reins.

The bits do not hurt the animals when they are trained to them properly.

Also,, if you plan on showing, by age 5 in most breeds, you better have your horse in a bridled bit. I am not against keeping them in snaffles if you are just pleasure riding, but if you are serious about your animals in the showring and training, there is nothing more poetic to watch than a horse trained up through the ranks to respond to seat and leg cues.

No, it's not that we like to use 'harsher' bits. I like to think of it as a bit that's more responsive especially in the discipline of Dressage. We don't use it to harm or punish the horse. It does harm in the wrong hands. Not all horses are completely responsive to snaffles and such. Think of it more as an extra nerve.

I really don't agree with the term "harsh".

Then again, some horses have had hard handed previous owners and their mouths have become insensitive to such soft bits.

There's many reasons behind it.

But in no way does it mean we haven't properly trained our horses or that we are cruel owners.

well now no need to be mad, I'm not a fan of harsh bits but there are reasons why some people do it.

1. is children. when you have a child on your horse you have to be very careful and take extra precautions.

2. Is prevention. yes, they may be trained but they can develop habits, so some people like to stop them before they start

3. ok, no not everyone is infallible, but it is true that gentler hands do help. whereas one person might be pulling on their mouths all the time, another might only once in a while. Its not like it doesnt help.

4. as terrible as it might sound, it is used as a teaching tool for the new rider. many horses, when they have a harsh bit in they wont respond if you pull on them, so the rider get to develop soft hands.

5. some horses dont respond to the slightest touch, its just that simple

now Im not saying Im for it, Im not, but you asked for reasons and those are some. I personally dont use harsh bits. I ride my morgan in a simple french link snaffle. I am a huge advocate for horsey rights, and I wish we could all just go bitless, but its just not that simple.

You got me. These bits are very common in Western Pleasure. I'm still wondering why "Pleasure" is part of the name of this event. There is nothing "pleasurable" about watching a bunch of horses with their heads hanging soo low that they are in danger of being kicked by their own front feet as they "limp" around the ring. There is NOTHING in the world that would make me put such a device in my horses mouth. No judge's opinion will ever be that important to me.