Is wheel balancing the same as tire balancing?

There are a few things that could have happened.

The best balancers (that I am aware of) are dynamic computer operated balancers. They work by spinning the wheel, and then detecting where on the wheel the weight should be placed, and how much weight. The professional balancers we used spun the wheel up to 50mph. Better balancers might spin faster. Also, the weights usually come in increments of 1/4 ounce (from what I remember). I imagine that better balancers might have tighter increments. Some machines will show where to add weights to both the inside and outside of the wheel. Also, sometimes if you have mag wheels, and the weights are only on the inside, it's tough to get a good balance. Its also possible that weights came off - but unless you're driving offroad or running into curbs, I wouldn't expect this to happen.

Some (cheap) tire shops use static balancers, which work by putting the wheel and tire assembly on a level, and then finding the weight that makes the tire balance. This is probably about the worst way wheels can be balanced.

Sometimes mechanics just misread what the machine says. What they should do is run the machine, add the weight, and then run the machine again. If the machine at that point says to add more than 1/4 ounce, you take the weights off and start over (that's the proper way to do it). If the mechanic is in a hurry, he may not do the extra work.

If the wheel is mounted on the balancing machine slightly off center, it will give a totally bogus reading. (This happens ALL THE TIME).

Sometimes the balancer is a little out of calibration. That happened to me, and I spent hours dinking with wheels and tires before I finally asked the shop manager to have the machine serviced. After that, it balanced very nicely.

Ice stuck to the tire somewhere is possible, but I think unlikely - if you drive on the tire at all, it will warm up enough to melt ice - even if its very cold outside.

A warped rim will also do some weird things in the balancer, and will vibrate, and do some weird things as well. If the mechanic doesn't torque the wheels properly (lug nuts too tight), it can warp the rims in no time flat, and then they'll act just like they're off balance.

The guys who work in tire shops are usually not mechanics. I was a photocopier technician, and then I got laid off, and the tire changing gig was the only job I could find at the time. It was often hard physical labor, dirty, your hands get scratched up and cut, its hard on the back, and not a lot of pay. About the only thing good about it was nearly unlimited overtime if I wanted it. Nobody grows up and wants to change tires - its just something that for some people is the best job they can get at the time when times are hard (as was the case for me).

Balance Tires/Wheels is all the same thing. The goal is that they don't vibrate when you go down the road.

Unfortunately you took the wheels to another shop, so I wouldn't expect to get any money back for rebalancing. In my experience, tire shops are happy to fix work if they did it and its not right, but once you go someplace else, most won't give you the time of day. Sad to say, but its actually quite a bit of work to get the wheels off of a car, put them on the machine, run it, and then properly remount them. They probably charge more now, but we used to charge $25.00 for rotate and balance tires, and its not a big money maker.

If it was me, and I felt I wasn't being treated fairly, I'd probably just go talk to the manager, and let them know that if they weren't willing to do the next rotation for me free, that I'd take my car elsewhere next time. If you're a regular customer, they'll usually come back and try to keep your business. If not, then go find another shop.

The original shop definitely screwed up. No mechanic should ever think that it is ok to balance wheels without tires on them unless its someone that the shop just pulled off the street (in which case they should not be working on the publics cars).

Although ice could cause an imbalance, I am not buying that at all since typically it would not cause the mass vibration that you felt especially just after you had the wheels balanced.

You were definitely shorted on this one.

As long as you had tires on the wheels before they were balanced the first time, they should have known to balance them with the wheels on. When wheels and tires are balanced, balancers are placed on the wheel with the tire on. But in theory you could just balance the wheels but I don't know who in their right mind would just balance wheels without tires because tires will always throw off the balancing when mounted. They are at fault and you should receive a refund.

Yes. New tires are NEVER 100% true and balanced around their circumference. Neither are your rims. A combination of those two NEVERS makes for a very unstable wheel combination. A bouncing tire makes for difficult steering control, noisy and uncomfortable ride, and early tire and shock/strute wear. Shocks/struts should only move when you hit a bump on the road. They are not designed to take the bump out of an unbalanced tire.

The original "mechanic" that worked on your car is a moron..plain and simple. He is trying to B.S. you about balancing. You balance the wheel and tire as a unit. He did his job poorly and got caught. I would contact the shop owner where this clown works and let them know he is a bad representative of the company. You are due a refund for the poor workmanship.

Unless they are repairing a cracked aluminum wheel then no one would balance a wheel without a tire there is no reason for it, It is possible for ice to build up inside a wheel and to throw it off balance. If you weren't in icy or snowy conditions then the first guy didn't do the job right.

You are correct, he is trying to B.S. you big time. If he put weights on the rim while the tire was still mounted, he was balancing the tire and rim at the same time. If he used a computer balance machine the machine was giving false info. or he was puting on the wrong weight in the wrong place. He did a bad job and thinks he can keep your money because you are stupid about cars. You are right to demand a refund.

The tire is the rubbery black thing ,it goes onto the steel wheel. They are two entirely different parts. They are balanced as a unit; this is done by spinning them.

Yes.

Yes.

Way to go!