Breeders, exhibitors and owners of previously docked dogs. Changes in docking laws in UK?

Hey -

I live in the UK and we own boxers. We have always had boxers but until recently had decided to end our affair with this wonderful breed. The subject of docking is still iffy in my mind. I see both sides to the arguement but i still maintain that it is not cruel. Puppies that are days old cannot suffer from this, for many reasons. It has now however become pointless. But boxers just are not the same with tails. Its what we're used to. Also boxers, rotties and pointers, to name a few, have very long tails that are suseptable to splitting. Hard wagging tails + long thin modern halls = trouble. And many dogs have had to be docked anyway. This causes more suffering and pain and more expenses then docking at a few days old. But then, we are unable to look into the future, so we wouldnt know whose tails would split.

After ummming and arrring we have decided to get another boxer in 2 or 3 yrs. Ofcorse it will have a tail and we will be prepared for the unwanted vets bills that this may cause. But saying this, a tail does not make a dog. And despite the physical change they will still be the breed we know and love and they will still have their lovely nature and big boxer smiles. We fell in love with the personality of or dogs. Not the tails (or lack of them)

xxx

Depends on the age of the dog - there are still some around who were docked legally, before the laws making this procedure illegal came into force. It is still legal to dock a dog who will be a working dog, in the UK (although how a working dog can be identified within a litter is anybody's guess - perhaps the whole litter is done, on that basis, however). I have a feeling this might still be done, illegally, in the UK by breeders (although I imagine vets have to report this if one comes into their practices?). Vets are not allowed to do this in the UK now - apart from the working dog thing. Imports will obviously come in docked (and sometimes cropped too). And yes, you can breed for 'naturally' docked breeds, much as I don't think it's been done with Rotties, Dobies etc. yet. ps This is an international board - right?

Among the breeders I know, their Dobermanns were customarily docked because a tail "ruined the line of the dog". The breed standard always allowed for a Dobermann with a full tail to be exhibited, but it was rare for it to be placed.

The majority of the Dobermanns exhibited by breeders that I knew/spoke to at championship/premier/open shows did not work/take part in any kind of sport, which lends weight to the argument that docking was not a necessity, but a personal preference.

Ulva Child made a good point that it is impossible to gauge at a few days old, which pups would be able to function {in the case of Dobermanns} as guard/working/schutzund sport dogs. That being the case the entire litter would have to be docked if the breeder wanted the Dobermanns to work, which would mean none of the pups could be exhibited in the UK.

However, many Dobermanns bred in the UK are too soft, lack the stability/drive to work, so does having a tail matter if the breeder doesn't breed for health, stability, function & form?

I do support the ban on docking, but appreciate that a tail could be detrimental to a working dog & a breeder cannot now work/show a dog unless they keep the tail undocked.

I believe in ONLY docking working dogs. Not show dogs, or dogs that do not do what they were intended to do. I dont live in UK but I am an advocate of not docking a dog unless that dog is 100% going to used for working. Also ONLY if they are working on a daily basis. I have seen MANY hunting, working, herding, birding, and heavy breeds live a long healthy ACTIVE life with never breaking a tail. I have OWNED dogs that have broken a tail, and they have never broken it again. Its pretty rare to just break a tail while working unless the dog is over enthusiastic while doing the work. I have seen a Great Dane break a tail by hitting a wall while wagging it happily when its parents got home, and they do NOT have a dock standard. I have seen Pittbulls with chewed off tails, broken tails and all sort of natural tail problems but they dont have a dock standard. So Any dog can break a tail even when its not working. Most Docking is for looks. NOT for practical use. Australian Sheps are often born with out tails, so docking tailed ones are not always a bad idea. Mainly because Tailed dogs that are generally born with out tail, end up having weaker tails. If its done correctly, and at the correct age its no more tramatic than nuetering, but I believe nature intended a dog to have a tail. We also have to look at why the dog breed was developed. IF the dog was developed with a purpose that put the tail into jeopardy. It should have been taken into consideration when developing the breed. Stronger or shorter tails should have been there aim in the long run, instead of docking them. Though its a touchy practice, I think the law is kind silly, if its needed it should be allowed. Its a dog and their health and life is in the owners hands. If it means a healthier life, or happier one, then by all means have it done, if the dog can live just fine with out the proceedure then let it be.

The down side to docking is that its not always done legally or well. IT can leave the dog in pain for the rest of its life. Phantom pains, and nerve damage is a few issues with a bad dock.

I think in most cases its safer for a dog to have a docked tail especially if its a working breed. Some dogs can break their own tails by the sheer power they poses and run up quite a fee in vet bills so sometimes in the long run its better. And i also like to see certain breeds with the docked tails.

I'm not in the UK, but I will star :)

Personally, I don't mind a dog having a docked tail, especially if it is a working breed, or if standard calls for it. Breed standards, as always, exist for a *reason*.

I have a docked Aussie mix, and I am overjoyed that her tail is docked. As active as she is up in the pastures and around the cows, I'm sure she would have broken her tail by now, if she had one. She would have been in unnecessary amounts of pain, and it would have had to be amputated--compared to docked at a young age, which she'll NEVER remember.

im in ireland and i think that if the dogs tail will get in their way and hinder their work then it should be docked. i have one docked springer, shes 11 and was done when i got her, and a second one that had to have her full tail removed as she injured the tip of it and the vet said it would only keep happening as it was so long. these are working dogs though but i don't agree with it being done to make the dog look better or to improve the line of the dog. there are plenty of non working dogs that have full tails and it causes them no harm.

I believe that it should be left as a personal choice. It just doesn't seem an area where governments should mandate.

However, if it is left as a personal choice, the dog show judges should honor that choice, and not demerit on the appearance of a tail, long or short, as long as the tail-set is correct. The breed standards in USA have adjusted to allow natural tails, but the judges haven't accepted that, yet. That doesn't seem fair to a good dog. The length of a properly set tail should not be a factor ..(the purpose of shows are *supposed* to be judging for ideal breeding stock, right?)

There are so many inhumane practices going on, that law enforcement is NOT handling. Why give them one more issue to deal with, when they won't deal with the far more inhumane practices. (such as puppy farms, and dog fighting.)

I am also not in the UK, but I starred for you.

My opinion is this...I LOVE my docked breeds! I am a traditionalist, and I like to try and keep dog as close to original breed standard as possible... and that includes docked tails and cropped ears.

Docking is no more cruel than removing the dew claws from a pup. Both are done at a very young age.

Hi,

I am in the UK. I totally agree with what Poppy has just said, as above. She is Absolutely right, and that is what I would've said. I personally think that only working breeds, or standard breeds with docked tails should be kept as it originally is. My english cocker spaniel has a docked tail, and for the same reason as what Poppy stated about her australian shepherd, the tail would be painfully broken as my cocker roams freely in the countryside chasing rabbits, birds, squirrels any-thing that moves and he has been in rabbit/badgers holes,and he has been 'stuck' but managed to get out safely and successfully. If my cocker had a tail he would eat it alive, because they are a very active and working dog therefore they have a purpose of having their tails docked. I don't think docking dog's tail is cruel ONLY if the method is used correctly and safely without any immediate pain.

For working dogs such as rottweilers, dobermanns, cockers, springers, australian shepherds, and many more are suited of having a docked tail better, not just because of the image but because of the purpose its breed.