Spiritually speaking,Christians... if man is smart enough to lick time and space through science ......?

It is interesting that the apostle Paul recognised his inability to obey God's holy commandments perfectly - that gives us all hope. We know we cannot be made right with God by our good works or obedience, except by believing in Jesus.

Unlike Christianity, all other belief systems emphasise on good works to earn merit, either to get right with God (for those who believe in God), or to find enlightenment and be set free from the cycle of life and death (for those who don't believe in God but believe in karma, rebirth or reincarnation).

For this reason, God gave the law or the ten commandments, not to make us holy or righteous, but to show us how sinful we are. For the commandments judge not just our actions, but also our hearts. Jesus said that if you have hatred towards a brother, you have committed murder. If you look at a woman with lust for her, you have committed adultery in your heart. (Matthew 5)

God is interested in heart transformation, not behaviour modification. Religion and philosophy likes to focus on self - how many good deeds we can perform to earn merit, how to make ourselves accepted by God, etc.

But Jesus did not come to give us laws and more laws; He came to give us life, that we may have life more abundantly. (John 10:10) What we need is not rules, regulations, laws, rituals, creeds, philosophical concepts and ideas, or self-help theories, or aromatherapy, or yoga, or meditation, or motivational talks and seminars, or "seven steps to effective prayer" or "ten steps to reach heaven"; what we need is JESUS. :)

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Therefore, when Paul came to the end of himself, knowing he could not be made righteous by keeping the commandment "You shall not covet", for the commandment only stirred up in his flesh all manners of lust, Paul exclaimed, "O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" (Romans 7:24)

It is noteworthy that Paul did not say, "What will deliver me from this body of death?" because it would imply that he was looking for a formula or methodology or philosophy to be set free from the bondage to sin or temptations or evil habits. Thank God none of these earthly, worldly means of human self-efforts can deliver us from this body of death, or else Jesus would have died in vain. We don't need self-help; we need divine help! :)

Therefore, Paul said, "Who shall deliver me from this body of death? I thank God - through Jesus Christ our Lord!" (Romans 7:25) God helps the helpless, or rather God helps those who know they are helpless. It is therefore not scriptural to say "God helps those who help themselves" because if we can help ourselves, then we won't need Jesus. The truth is: all of us are spiritually bankrupt after Adam's disobedience in the garden. The only way for us to be saved from sin and death, from this body of death, from a life of self-occupation is to believe in Jesus to be our Lord and Saviour, our Redeemer, our new identity in Christ.

Indeed, "the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." (Galatians 3:24-25) God gave the law to show man how far short he has fallen short of God's glory and come to the end of himself, so that he will see his need for a Saviour.

But even for Christians today, many of us who don't understand God's grace tend to get into performance-oriented living, trying our best to live a holy life to please God. It will sooner or later produce frustrations, because we know we will always fail or fall short of God's perfect standards. We often tend to ask ourselves, "Am I pleasing to God? Am I accepted to God? Have I done enough good deeds to please God?"

All these questions may sound harmless, even religious and well-meaning, but they are actually wrong questions to ask, in the light of the new covenant of grace. Under the new covenant, it is no more the question of whether we are accepted by God by our good deeds or obedience, as important as these things are. To ask these questions is to depart from grace and go back under law, trying to be justified by keeping the law. And we learn earlier that no one, not the apostle Paul or anyone else, can be made righteous by the law - in fact, "the strength of sin is the law." (1 Corinthians 15:56)

As long as our eyes are on ourselves - how good we can perform, how much we love God and others - we have lost sight of Jesus and what He has done for us at the cross. We have forgotten that it is Jesus' perfect sacrifice that makes us righteous, holy and blameless in God's sight. We have forgotten that apart from Christ, we can do nothing. We have forgotten that if not for Jesus' finished work at the cross - His death, burial and resurrection - we would all still be in our sins and we would not have any perfect standing before God.

All true transformation therefore comes by looking away from self and looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of faith. We are transformed not by beholding our shortcomings, faults and limitations, but by beholding the glory of the Lord. (2 Corinthians 3:18) And it is not by might, nor by power, but by the Holy Spirit. (Zechariah 4:6) Only when we are free from the law, from being self-occupied, can we walk according to the Spirit, and not according to the flesh. (Romans 8:3-4)

Hence, Paul did not talk about the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the first seven chapters of the book of Romans (except Romans 5:5 where he talked about the love of God) until he established the truth that "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ" in Romans 8:1. Therefore, when we believe that there is no more condemnation for us because Christ was condemned for our sins at the cross in our place, we are able to flow with the Holy Spirit, by following life and peace on the inside of us. "For to be carnally minded (depending on self-efforts) is death, but to be spiritually minded (depending on God's grace or undeserved favour) is life and peace." (Romans 8:6)

The truth of the gospel will always set us free - not just from sin but also from temptations, self-righteousness, guilt, shame and condemnation. Most men especially are concerned with such temptations as with lust, anger, pride, drugs, smoking, etc. and the way many of them try to overcome such temptations is to depend on their will power. But Paul by the Holy Spirit called it "will worship" (in the King James Version)

"Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations - 'Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle', which all concern things which perish with the using - according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh." (Colossians 2:20-23, NKJV)

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Therefore, the way to cease internal struggles or civil war on the inside of us is not to depend on our human self-efforts to get right with God, but to rest in the finished work of Jesus Christ at the cross. "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) God has perfected us forever, therefore we are complete in Christ. (Colossians 1:28) We are the righteousness of God in Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

We are no more in Adam; we are in Christ. Christ is the measure of our right standing before God, for as Christ is at the Father's right hand, so are we in this world". (1 John 4:17) Right believing will always produce right living. When we believe we are righteous in Christ, not because of anything we have done, but because of what Christ has done, we will not only live righteously, but also live with an unshakeable sense of peace in our heart, knowing we cannot lose His righteousness by our mistakes. :)

"Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1

"for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Romans 14:17

Always remember, my brethren, that Jesus is our Righteousness. (1 Corinthians 1:30) Jesus is our Peace, not the peace that the world gives or the peace that we think we can earn by our good performance, but Jesus Himself, who is living in our spirits today - "Christ in you, the hope of glory". (John 14:27; Colossians 1:27)

The Holy Spirit will bear witness that we are children of God. (Romans 8:16) The Holy Spirit also bears witness that God remembers our sins no more. (Hebrews 10:17) The Holy Spirit has not come to find faults with us, or to remind us of our sins, or to condemn us - that is the accusing voice of Satan, not the Holy Spirit. Instead, the Holy Spirit who indwells us convicts us of righteousness, reminding us that no matter what happens, we are always the righteousness of God in Christ. (John 16:10)

That is the ministry of the Holy Spirit, to bring glory to Jesus Christ and His finished work at the cross. (John 16:14) May we all, like Paul, be not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation ('soteria' in Greek) - to make us whole in every area of our lives - when we believe the truth that we are made righteous by faith in Christ. As it is written "The righteous by faith shall live (or find life)." (Romans 1:16-17)

Thanks for the opportunity for us to encourage one another in the Lord, sister Karen. God bless you. :)

The first question is are you trying to do this by yourself or asking for God for help in this quest? Read Matthew 7:7 "Ask,and it shall be given you: seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened." Now that is not to say that if you ask for a new car God will give you a new car. Ask God for the thing repetedly. It may not be the time for you to recieve the gift. Don't get angry with God if you never recieve it. That will just prove you didn't deserve it. I hope that I was able to help a little.

The world wants to do what is right in their own eyes (not seek God):

Romans 3:10-12 (King James Version)

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Isaiah 64:6 (King James Version)

6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Romans 3:23 (New King James Version)

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6:23 (New King James Version)

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

John 3:15-21 (King James Version)

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Eph 5:18

King James Bible

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Romans 10

We must consider the Bible's claim that man was created in the image and likeness of God. "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;…'" Genesis 1:26. This phrase "created in His own image" is repeated four times. Mankind was therefore made on a divine pattern, which is not true of other animals. Theologian Douglas Kelly wrote, "The astonishing teaching of this verse is that for man to be in the image of God is to be like Him in certain definite respects." This specialness, transcendence and uniqueness of man is something that could not have evolved. This is the part of man that cannot be reduced to a chemical formula and does not appear in the DNA. Kelly explains, "The Hebrew word for 'image' (tselem) appears to have meant 'to carve' or 'to cut off'… In other words, man was shaped or formed to fit into the image of God." Thus, this "image of God" in which we were created gives us significance and the ability for relationship. Interestingly, for the first time God describes Himself with the plural pronoun "Us." God, who has always existed as a trinity, has never existed outside a relationship. His creation of man was the pinnacle of His creation. All prior creative acts prior to man's creation was to "set the stage" for the creation of mankind. "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it; he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; there is none else." Isaiah 45:18.

It seems to me that your argument breaks down like this:

Man can not have whatever he desires

therefore god exists.

That simply doesn't follow.

To say that mankind's enlightenment has carried him no further than the wisdom of Socrates is absurd. A huge body of philosophical thought has been growing and built upon since the time of Plato. Many philosophers have dealt with issues of spiritual enlightement to varying degrees of satisfaction. Yet you conveniently leave them out.

I'm sorry but there are people in this world who do feel fulfilled... who do feel spiritually enlightened... and who do find meaning in life... and they do all of this without any reference to a supernatural being.

Before governments and religions change man has to change. Growth in Christ is a journey.there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. There are many smart men Judas was one of them.

This is an epic question and I've never said that before about any on here. I've never seen it as such before and it's opened my eyes. I knew we where created in the image of God didn't realise that the greatness that we have within us and the things we have achieved are because we have God in us. The spirit that guides us and enlightens us. That God who created the universe has installed creativity in us. That apart of his knowledge and wisdom is in us. Thanks for posting this, Peace.

yes..the Apostles..they certainly were men..with all the frailties of thought and body of modern people.

We were designed..designed to live forever. Forever. We were not to age either.

We are promised a renewal of body after judgment...in Paradise..forever. We will not be robots..I think what awaits mankind will be so awesome, that the survivors of Armageddon will never look back..not even once.

We can start with Jeremiah's statement in chapter 10

23 I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

Then Paul's statement after the part you quoted:

25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with [my] mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with [my] flesh to sin’s law.

So he knew what you asked, that only by Jesus Christ's gift of his life will we have that freedom. Paul goes on in the 8th chapter.

18 Consequently I reckon that the sufferings of the present season do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is going to be revealed in us. 19 For the eager expectation of the creation is waiting for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will but through him that subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves, while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom. 24 For we were saved in [this] hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep on waiting for it with endurance.

It goes back to Jesus' words on his last night on earth.

John 17:3

We need to know God and His Son, and live accordingly.

What the hell are you talking about? I didn't lick anything.

Lick time? Mmmmm time, tasty tasty time...*drool*...