Theists & Atheists: Do you agree a great "POWER" DOES exist, but gods do NOT exist?

Question

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Here is one argument to show that a great "POWER" DOES exist, but gods do NOT exist.

But before we do, let's define/target a god before we bust him. For discussion sake, let's target and bust the god of Moses worshiped by Jews, Christians and Muslims.

Let's put out the following query: Is there any evidence anywhere, such as a god particle, a god fossil, a god thingy of some kind, to identify, trace, detect this god, living or dead, since Moses proclaimed him? In academia, in the absence of proof of the existence of something it must be deemed not to exist until verifiable proof is found. Thus, god is held not to exist pending some sort of verifiable evidence. All the paleontologists, astronomers and scientists are still looking. Despite the abuse they receive, many retain their faith and hope to find evidence. But the answer has always been NO. Then by reasonable judgment, god does NOT exist.

Indeed there is much that is amazing, that we are researching, that we don't have answers for. But to conclude that therefore some god (which god) did it, is beyond naive or stupid. It's self deceiving. 

Science has shown that energy can neither be created, nor destroyed. It has always existed in many forms as matter and dark matter, energy and dark energy, in ways we have yet to discover. The Big Bang was nothing more than a behavior of this always existent energy. We come from energy. We are energy. We take in and expel energy. We will return to energy. Science has revealed all this. There is no need for a god to create that which has always existed, not created, indestructible. So why stick our heads in the sand and say "I'm alive. God is the explanation?" What are you, if not energy? All the universe, see and unseen, is energy. You are a part of that whole. After you die, you will live on, in different dispersed forms of energy. And if maggots crawl out of your dead carcass, it is reasonable for a primitive man to conclude that you have reincarnated. But your perceived god has no power aside from energy. What then is greater, energy or the perceived god. What is an invisible god without the POWER? All that we see, all we know is energy.

Follow up: Then why did Moses proclaim his god? Could there be a motive for Moses to fabricate such a god? How about power, kingdoms, captive virgins, gold and chattels? (Numbers 31:25-54) Isn't that a great motive for outlaws to slaughter and plunder humanity? Then by reasonable judgment, the god of Moses is a fabrication, but a useful tool for men in positions of power as well as the followers who benefit.

The era of superstition is fast coming to an end, as knowledge overcomes ignorance and evidence against it continues to build. It's a reasoned judgment based on the preponderance of the evidence or lack thereof, plus other factors. Not everything is known to man. Therefore, judgment is critical and has been instrumental in the progress of our humanity. Our judgments are successful when they are based on the preponderance of evidence, unbiased knowledge and wisdom. If we rejected the preponderance of evidence in favor of FAITH, the earth would still be flat and at the center of the universe.

Actually, the 'idea of gods' needs prostrating worshipers like yourself to be, otherwise what would it be? Not even a hallucination. Those who create or worship imaginary gods suffer one or more of the following weaknesses: Ignorance, Gullibility, Brainwashing, greed for Reward, Fear of the unknown, Insecurity without a support group or more sinister Motives such kingdoms, power, virgins, gold and chattels (Numbers 31:25-54). Do one or more of these qualify you to be in the faith?

To help you, I would like to share with you these definitions:

FAITH: a vague idea, concept or impression of the unnatural and unreal kind, held steadfast to be true without substantiation or proof.

TRUTH: a fact that can be verified; conformity to reality or actuality.

Other distorted definitions of Faith or Truth used in a play of semantics to distort or sidestep sound reasoning and judgment, I reject for the reasons stated.

Should you worship the POWER of energy? The world already does, only not in ritual form or hallucinations. The ones that process the most energy are the richest and greatest.

Finally, if any theist is sure a god exists, let him/her prove it with intelligent reasoning rather than rant, or forever be silent. Can you show that a god, any god, exists without the unsubstantiated claims in religious books or statements saying god said this or John said that? Or asking to prove a negative? There are those who argue that the signs of god are everywhere. What we see, all we see is the POWER of energy and it's evolution over time. Neither are gods required to create the uncreatable, indestructible. Who then created the gods? We know FAITH is blind. Must we blind ourselves. Is it better to enter the dark cave of FAITH rather than walk towards the light of TR

e · Accepted Answer

nice, i agree when u say 'The era of superstition is fast coming to an end, as knowledge overcomes ignorance and evidence against it continues to build'. its inevitable. I once had a dream, i saw the world in space and it was one huge glowing ball, in the dream i died and i changed into a shape with the same colour as the earth and i rose out and then the earth absorbed me into itself and i was part of that ball. i think i was also, like you thinking about energy and that came up in my dream. wer just one big circular ball of energy that gets recycled and gets put into different combinations to make different things.

Anonymous · Answer

Interesting question, but you should know science hasn't always known the things we know today, just because we didn't know about it 20 years ago does not mean it didn't occur 20 years ago. So you cannot disprove the existance of a creator because his existance hasn't been proven. Your entire arguement was not proven at one point, and still is only theory, not law. No one is right when it comes this topic. Because no one knows.

Edit: Superstition and Fearmongering? Suppression of science? Would you like to point out where I ever stated anything along those lines? I was simply outlining that it is possible the existance of a creator may be prooven one day. 
 Regardless, energy of course is fact, as you stated earlier in your question that we are all created of energy, and when we die that energy lives on. Did you ever think possibly that energy could play a factor in your "soul" and when you die your energy (soul perhaps) returns to its creator, God? Surely you didn't think a soul is like pixie dust or some tinkerbell like entity? Obviously a human soul would be energy if anything. Logic and Truth are only as good as the humans who define it, therefore the truth may not always be so. I do understand your arguement though, there is no physical evidence to prove his existance, but there is also none to disprove it. When you think in spiritual terms you must think with a very open mind, everything you see is either the product of a supernatural being, or a random coincidence. I cannot prove Gods existance, but who's to say 20, 30, 40, maybe 100 years down the road someone will. I will admit, your very intelligent and know your science = )

Now, my question is. Do you think that it was random coincidence that the universe was created, or do you think an outside force beyond our comprehension may have pushed the envelope?

I personaly believe that there is a God, and that he influenced the way the universe is now. I think that he did show himself as Jesus, as stated in the Bible. Pity there is no evidence of him other than the Bible, and other small outside sources.

EDIT: I'm sorry, but your going of on to things that were never mentioned. You cannot prove the universe was not created, if you can then the Burden of Proof is on you as well as I. Please back up your assumptions with hard evidence, or declare it is purely speculation. I know I cannot prove my point through the evidence you desire, but if your's can be prooven please do so, don't simply tell me how it works, there has to be studies behind it. 
~Best Regards.

PS. My username is Apostole, translated from the new testament Greek Lexicon, which is a military command, for navy fleets. Apostate is an individual whome forsakes thier beliefs or religion, derived from the word apostasy. Just pointing that out, I'm sure you just got mixed up though. Later.

EDIT: Alright works for me. So basically you are against religion because of the harshness of punishment? I understand that, I feel the same way often. Though catholic religion is very strict, you may want to explore Methodist, Baptist, Lutheren, Ect.... Anyways, good luck, and catcha later.

David Carrington Jr. · Answer

I don't know about a great power. A great question mark, certainly. Deists might think of it as a god, but I think such a broad definition of god is fairly useless.

Edit: I mean the definition as god is useless. It's the same as saying god=x.

Alexxia · Answer

I think a greater power does exist, and it's called fate. Nobody can decide what color a persons hair is going to be or what a person is going to say in the next 60 seconds or whatever, There is no way. We have our own minds, and we do what we want with them. -_-'

Anonymous · Answer

I like to believe in the idea of a universal energy flow, but that usually only occurs after i have ingested mushrooms of the psilocybe cubensis variety.

Haitham Emad · Answer

Well , I have to agree the POWER of energy exists but does energy have the will to move on its own in a very specified matrix to create the universe then create the planets then -Oh my- comes the first atoms from where life started & we -voala- evolute from it !

Energy on its own is just energy , it needs higher will to control it -just like we do- and benefit from it .

edit : 
I like questioners who respond , it makes life easier .
Creatures can't be a mere energy or else all we have to do is recharge energy endlessly so we can live forever . Creatures manipulate energy to force an action on other entities to make a change , we use energy to stay alive .
Assuming that our creation was a coincidence of energy flows meeting and creating the first cell , why don't we see mono-celled viruses coming out of -lets say- light ? oil ? laser beams ? any form of pure energy ? they can't ... energy doesn't have a free will , it is in its nature to flow around and around endlessly or transform from one form to another but it can not decide -suddenly- to create life .

The idea is , energy flows but Free will is what controls its flow . Suggesting that our existence started with a coincidence is a lame assumption .
Oh and even if you have proven your theory -slim chance- you have to prove where did this energy come from ? Big bang ? where did that come from ? Just started ? then why don't we see those things around any more ?
It is a big and endless loop that can be easily broken by -simply- admitting that God exists - which I sincerely believe in .

P.S. don't worry if I didn't answer to your reply tonight , I am very sick and writing to you from bed = S
Cheers

edit [ II ] 
My temperature is getting down but I still can't leave bed , I hate this soar taste in my throat and the feeling of a puppet when we cut its ropes , I am string-less though .

Anyway , Living creatures do recharge and age because as any other thing in this universe , our bodies get consumed from over using them and constantly recharging its cells with energy .However , that doesn't mean that our bodies are just energy . If I am getting you right then you are supposing that whatever makes us alive or -at least- keeps us from death is Energy only , correct ? and when this energy vanishes or the rechargeable tool [our bodies] wears off , we meet our end ... Am I correct up till now ? 
This assumptions unfortunately don't meet with what really happens in real life , a man's life can just end with a complete unknown and unreasonable cause . Some people can survive several month without food [energy] through free will only [e.g. Buddha priests & Yoga pros] , I even read that some people can control the number of their heart beats and lower their body functions to the minimal survival limits . 
You give your fingers an order to move in a certain direction with specified power , your brain initiates a series of chemical reactions that result in an Electric signal to the nerves , flashing to your finger to move . Ok , did all that happen on its own or YOU just made it happen ?

If that is not free will then what is it ? 

The given above examples explained how the human kind have some control on their cosmic energies [ the amount of control varies from person to another ] some can control it slightly more than others , some can use a higher percent of their Brain's energy while others can concentrate on their muscles ; People can control their energies however they like and we can't compare a random energy behaviour to that of an organised form of life like human Kind  .

Energy laws were put by the observing human kind , we just observed how it reacts and put theories on what we see . Energy laws don't apply to all forms of energy though but they apply generally to earthly energy . 

My assumption that energy existed then God must have created it is basically true , because energy like any other thing has a start and an end , I know it doesn't end but only transform to another form but this is end in its meaning .
A sun light energy ends on solar shields and another life for electric energy starts .

P.S. I am still feeling a bit numb & noxious , I guess I will answer to your reply as soon as I get better . Cheers .

edit [III] :
Thanks for wishing me a speedy recovery , I know I will be just fine if they laid off all those antidotes and painkillers I am dosing . Sorry I am late in answering .

1) Well , that is great , you are starting to understand what I am referring too - you are suggesting that Our free will is just another form of energy that is controlling our entity energy , well , religious people refer to this (upper energy) as the Soul of Creatures , it is our good feelings & thoughts , it is our ability to make decisions , to choose and live . Soul represents whatever is Good in our human nature.
Being limited to the Energy is only in real life decisions but Imagination , it is just Limitless , with no boundaries or restrictions , our imagination is simply the proof that we are not bound to energy laws . Imagination flows can't be limited to Energy laws , you can neither change imagination to reality nor to energy , only transferred into ideas .

2) Well , as I believe that energy doesn't have an (upper decision maker) or even free will on its own , Just a random or repetitive behaviour , then I think that such energy can't create life or planets - suggesting that our lives were mere coincidence of molecules hitting each other is just beyond reasonable thinking ... 
Constants exist in our world and apply -almost- to everything we can observe or measure , one of these rules states clearly that everything must have a beginning and an End . I think that this applies to the (Indestructible energy) you mentioned earlier , it must have a start,a source or anything that initiated such a powerful sums of energy . 
you asked a logical question that I have one certain proof-less answer ; you said who created God - I have to say no one , God has always been there and our earthly rules don't apply to His greatness . Where is my proof ? No proof , I have no evidence or clue to something coming out of pure faith and believe . So , it is not a scientific answer , it is a faithful one . Superstition is not the right word though . I prefer religious .

3) Yeah , that Solar board thingie probably wasn't the best example out there , but you get the point of what I mean ; also I already explained why do I think that energy must have an initiator or a source at least . 
The matter of energy dying and re-birthing into a new form isn't evolution , it is a transformation process that keeps power resources of our planet stabilized .
Evolution is bound to the living cells that can evolve and upgrade to the better , it is somehow related to the Genetic changes that creatures obtain through centuries of Evolution .

Well , I would have had fun replying this time if it wasn't for that Pain-in-the-As headache . *Gulp* more painkillers , I hate to disturb my inner chemical balance but there is no escaping pills those days . 
Hope my out-of-order words meant anything to you , I think I was just hallucinating this time .

Cheers .

Anonymous · Answer

I fell asleep in the fourth paragraph, sorry. 

No, I disagree. You label this a "great Power." Im happy with calling it what it is - energy. Not great, not not-great, not capitalized, just energy.

Carter Boy · Answer

God does exist, he is the reason we are here. I am a child of God

The Observer · Answer

If anyone reads your whole question, they win a cookie.

Oh, and "no."

Anonymous · Answer

God most definitely exists----and I can prove it---I don't have time to read your novel-

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Theists & Atheists: Do you agree a great "POWER" DOES exist, but gods do NOT exist?

11 Answers