Is anti feminism just inclusive feminism?

There just seems to be too many "anti-feminists" who are labeled by feminists. Anyone who is in disagreement with their motives are labeled "anti-feminist," huh? Nadine Strossen is labeled an anti-feminist. Warren Farrell is an anti-feminist. Sallie Tisdale is an anti-feminist. Norah Vincent is an anti-feminist. How many anti-feminists can there be according to feminists? Either these "anti-feminists" are against women as the feminists claim or feminism is too sectarian minded and narrow in it goals in promoting selective equality for women. I am betting on the latter rather than the former.

I dont think all varieties of this movement are neccessarily inclusive. In fact the image they often paint is very exclusive and supports a specific type of society ie a culturally conservative society. Certainly the most vocal in the antifeminist/whatever it wants to be called bench would maintain that patriachal families are the best rather than nuclear or same sex or that we have rights when women have trational right, and fathers and children live within these contexts as well. This paints a very particular picture of the goldern age of conservativism. This was not a time when we had a lot of rights. Often they incinuation that a protection of women at work or the fact that women work as if they were being duped by the communists. This is not unfamiliar. Dupes/useful idiots are the laguage that all culturally elite worldviews use wether the people are dupes of the communist, freemason, jew or NWO. or indeed if housewives or the workers are suffering from false conciousness. The basic message behind this is that people are not really "free" until they live in the way people like Naomi Klein, Western Marxists, facists, christian fundamentalists, traditionalist want them to be free. Instead of realising the fact that this is what people desire. The movements gloss over the obvious faults that have occured in these regimes of true "freedom" such as the masses disenfrachised of rights and others having them piled on. This different regimes of "freedom" are guilty of telling people what they want instead of expanding peoples ability to do what they want. I think its undeniable that people in the west have more freedom to do what they want. While some masculists are in favour of this i would have to the antifeminists are not. The are not an inclusive feminism but an exclusive conservatism whereby freedom is synonymous with the way they see it. Its kind of facist to think like that. No wonder the types of people who have expressed such elitist views of freedom are those who have set up totalitarian states.

Possibly so. I have no problems with women being equal per se.

My problem with feminism is that you cannot cure problems by only looking at one side of the problem. Anti feminists want equal rights for everyone not just women.

If we follow the feminist program too many people who's freedoms are lost because ever more must be given to women.

Feminists fight for women's rights I am cool with that but at some point they need to stop and see if they are doing anyone any good.

And they simply are not. By trampling men's and fathers rights they are actually hurting men and children. But what is sadder still is they are hurting the very people they are fighting for as well.

Mother's suffer when their sone kills himself because he has no access to his children or has a burden of child support that is so unforgiving that he can not meet his own needs let alone a whole other families.

Women suffer because men are afraid to be men any more and those like me who are no longer afraid to be men are demonized for not following the feminist line.

I don't want to see women lose any rights I want to see them earn them the same as men do.

The current way feminism is run is that women have rights and men have responsibilities.

And we will continue to have a gender war as long as this is the case.

Feminists and anti feminists are not so different as feminists make it out to be.

We just are looking at the ultimate goal differently.

Feminists want equality for women anti feminists want equality for everyone.

Yeah. Ironic, isn't it? I would still support feminism today if I hadn't woken up to the fact that modern feminism has about as much to do with equality as the KKK.

Here is a great example of the two faces of feminism: the wonderful Erin Pizzey, and the 100% sinister Judge Vera Baird http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1529...

I think feminists are heading towards either insolvency, or moderation. I think they are willing to back peddle a little bit with moderate feminism. Just until 2 generations from now, we will be gone, and the radicals can rise from the dust bin of the ghetto they created, and try to reinvent the wheel.

Could you imagine, in a world without productive men, the wheel will fade into the dark ages. Women will then reinvent it, and take all the credit!

Today is the first day I have seen you use 'liberal' as if it were a dirty word: at least twice.

I had no idea you were a conservative Replican [sic]

*WHACKS Eoghan with handbag with brick inside*

Take that you right winged reprobate

EDIT: AND as per one of you other answers it wasn't 'liberal European politicians' that caused the current global financial meltdown it was the Conservative Replican [sic] American Govt

EDIT # 2: All the right wing loonies who see a liberal society as a dangerous slide to communism are talking out of their deluded arses: it's absolutely laughable to even equate the two.

Anti feminist is not used as a derogatory term on y/a. It seems that the feminist word incites more anger and insults on here. You seem to feel that mainstream feminist beliefs will soon be overrun by radical feminism that will take over your country and enslave you in some communist lifestyle. Be more concerned for politicians, religion and social ills that will more likely all-consume you up.

How can "anti-feminism" be a form of feminism?

Sorry, that just doesn't make sense.

People like Warren Farrell and Christina Hoff Summers used to call themselves feminists before they blew the whistle on feminist hypocrisy, that's true, but even now they don't actually call themselves anti-feminists.

EDIT: If Eleanor couched her answer in English instead of gobbledegook we could perhaps stand a better chance of understanding what she is trying to say. All we can glean so far is that she thinks that everything but everything is just a subdivision of feminism. Surely she's not saying that, is she? Seriously?

EDIT: Rio Madeira, you say "... an anti-feminist is one who opposes gender equality ... anyone who supports gender equality without the feminist label is just a non-feminist." It's not like you to come up with unmitigated twaddle like that.

Okay Eoghan, I will take pity on you....

Yes, the term anti-feminist is contradictory and meaningless. I've only ever seen it written in one feminist book, and that was because I went looking for it on Google. I personally never use the term outside of Yahoo, and would run a mile from using it in an academic essay.

And yes, some of those termed 'anti-feminist' are actually just different branches of feminism - ifeminism, Hoff Summers and a few other 'feminist' renegades I can think of are actually what would be called liberal / libertarian feminism. Whenever you see a feminist arguing for equal rights, but saying feminism should stay out of cultural / lifestyle affairs - they are probably a liberal feminist. Farrell seems to be an exception as he is actually somewhere along the socialist / marxist feminist definition (he challenges cultural affairs and he also believes in structural discrimination against men).

The term is most correct when applied to people like Phylis Schlafly, a self proclaimed anti-feminist, who deliberately set out to defeat feminist inspired equality laws, on the basis that she wanted to retain women's special privileges.

As regards its use here on yahoo, it seems to refer to two different types of people - those who do not believe in equality between men and women (certain traditional ladies, etc) and so are opposed to feminism - and those who do believe in equality, but who are still opposed to feminism. Where I think some people may take issue is not in the perceived belief that they are being labelled as opposed to feminism, but being labelled as opposed to equality.

Having said that, when a person attacks 'feminism' as being the problem, they themselves categorise feminism as one belief and thus exclude any other beliefs, including their own, from the definition of what feminism is. So if it is true that most of those termed 'anti-feminist' really just represent different branches of feminism, they could solve this problem for themselves by simply saying 'I'm not an anti-feminist, I'm a 'x, y, z' feminist. As a liberal feminist, I criticise many mainstream feminist beliefs on here all the time, and I have yet to be called an anti-feminist :-)

Anti feminism is simply equality for *everyone* instead of selective equality for women only.