how much below MSRP should I offer?

I wish we had 50% markup. On most cars/trucks/suv's the more it costs the more markup in general. He should be able to discount the Rouge by 5% to 7% not including rebates however I will tell you this Rouges are hard to find used so he may not move that much. I also say ask for a copy of the invoice and offer at most $500 over less the rebates.

about 30 % for a first offer.used to be they were still making money at that like furniture with 3600% mark-up. cars were around 50% mark-up

With the way prices are so weird nowadays who knows I see some dealers stating they are selling below cost (they cannot stay in business like that for long) And then after all the hidden taxes and insurances that are forced upon the small businessman it's a wonder anyone can stay in business.

we have to have a 3,000,000, bond for the city , a 3,000,000 for the county and 5,000,000 for the state. what's bad is you cannot use the same bond for all three . now we are being told we must have another bond for certain neighborhoods.

You can usually get it for around 1,000$ lower. Have you tried calling the internet fleet manager? They give the rock-bottom prices. The salesmen don't.

3 thousand

Ask to see invoice and pay 3% above which is fair for all.