LDS - what is your interpretation of Ephesians 2:8-10?

scripture talks about salvation in a couple of ways - the LDS believe that Christ provided His sacrifice and atonement for ALL men - as a free gift. That means that ALL will be saved by His grace - jew and gentile alike - further it says that -

"For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

However, we further believe that God expects and hopes that we will try to be the best followers of His gospel that we can be. The LDS also do not view the eternities/heaven as a stagnant, boring place, but a place of learning and progressing and knowledge. Our 'performance' on this earth, during this test, ("works") will help to determine where we begin our eternities.

I often think of "after all we can do" which is found in the Book of Mormon. These "works" I think, are things like repentance, baptism, keeping the commandments, because they are things we do actually have to do, in order to gain eternal life. Those are the "all we can do". No one is going to be "saved" in ignorance. There are requirements for certain things and blessings are predicated upon those requirements. Like, a person will not receive the blessings of tithing if they aren't actually paying tithing.

We believe we are never going to be perfect, of course. Christ is our advocate with the Father. He will bridge the gap that we cannot.

We DO however believe we will be judged UPON our works - things like service, charity, how we treated others. I cannot for a second believe that a person who is self-proclaimed "saved" can then sit on their butt for the rest of their life and do nothing for others - or even worse, a man I know claims he could go out and kill 100 people, and still be saved. I don't agree with that ONE bit. But, that's my choice too.

Basically, we believe there is SO much more than "saved"... more than A Heaven and A Hell. We beleive there are 3 levels of heaven or degrees of glory that pretty much everyone will inhert. There will be those in outer darkness, but they are the sons of perdition. Not too many. We are all different. Our circumstances are all different. God knows us indiviually and I just cannot see him sending a person to hell, that may have been a wonderful person, but never knew Christ. (Well, that's why we believe in the redemption of the dead, but that's a whole different subject.)

There's more than heaven and hell. So much more.

Mike,

You have asked a question respectfully and truly with the intent to understand others - thanks! You've gotten very good answers. The reason that I would say that many times LDS people - including friends and neighbors - appear to become defensive is because often we are attacked rather than approached with the respect you have shown. Even in the best of any person - it can trigger a reflex. Not saying it is the right thing - just human nature to respond that way.

The way I first began to understand the saved by grace vs. mercy and how both can coexist was by a story called the parable of the bicycle.

I copy/pasted this from an article - complete text can be found at: http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=23...

I was sitting in a chair reading. My daughter, Sarah, who was seven years old at the time, came in and said, “Dad, can I have a bike? I’m the only kid on the block who doesn’t have one.”

Well, I didn’t have the money then for a bike, so I stalled her. I said, “Sure, Sarah.”

She said, “How? When?”

I said, “You save all your pennies, and soon you’ll have enough for a bike.” And she went away.

A couple ofs weeks later I was sitting in the same chair when I heard a “clink, clink” in Sarah’s bedroom. I asked, “Sarah, what are you doing?”

She came to me with a little jar, a slit cut in the lid, and a bunch of pennies in the bottom. She said, “You promised me that if I saved all my pennies, pretty soon I’d have enough for a bike. And, Daddy, I’ve saved every single one of them.”

My heart melted. My daughter was doing everything in her power to follow my instructions. I hadn’t actually lied to her. If she saved all of her pennies, she would eventually have enough for a bike, but by then she would want a car. I said, “Let’s go look at bikes.”

We went to every store in town. Finally we found it—the perfect bicycle. She was thrilled. Then she saw the price tag, and her face fell. She started to cry. “Oh, Dad, I’ll never have enough for a bicycle!”

So I said, “Sarah, how much do you have?”

She answered, “Sixty-one cents.”

“I’ll tell you what. You give me everything you’ve got and a hug and a kiss, and the bike is yours.” Then I drove home very slowly because she insisted on riding the bike home.

As I drove beside her, I thought of the atonement of Christ. We all desperately want the celestial kingdom. We want to be with our Father in Heaven. But no matter how hard we try, we come up short. At some point all of us must realize, “I can’t do this by myself. I need help.” Then it is that the Savior says, in effect, All right, you’re not perfect. But what can you do? Give me all you have, and I’ll do the rest.

He still requires our best effort. We must keep trying. But the good news is that having done all we can, it is enough. We may not be personally perfect yet, but because of our covenant with the Savior, we can rely on his perfection, and his perfection will get us through.

As Janet and I internalized how the Atonement works, we wept. “I’ve always believed that Jesus suffered and died for me,” Janet said. “But now I realize that he must save me from myself, from my sins and my weaknesses.”

It always helped me understand the part of doing our own part and receiving the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ at the same time.

Here are some quotes from the Book of Mormon

"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is ONLY in and through the grace of

God that ye are saved (2 Nephi 10:24)."

"For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do (2 Nephi 25:23)."

"Nevertheless, the Lord God showeth us our weakness that we may know that it is by his grace, and his great condescensions unto the childrn of men, that we have power to do these things."

We really do believe in his grace and those scriptures you quoted. But you can see, even without these scriptures from the B o M, just by looking at the life of the man who wrote Ephesians, works was important to him even though he chose to emphasize grace. He spent his whole life (after he repented) in the service of God. The very fact that he wrote an epistle to the Ephesians is evidence of that. He could have said, "Now I believe" and considered it enough. But he didn't. He worked hard in the service of God.

But if he had done all the work he did and Christ had not atoned for his sins, he would not make it to heaven. Paul could turn blue in the face trying to serve Christ, but if Christ had not suffered for his sins all his work would be in vain. He needed Christs grace. On the flip side, if he had decided to believe in Christ, yet continued to persecute Christians it would also have been difficult for him to get into heaven (does he really believe in Christ if he is still choosing to persecute his church?). Jesus Christ didn't die for him to say he believed while he continues to tear down Christ's church. He needs both works AND grace. Neither one is unimportant.

I think our beliefs really aren't that different. I'm sure you believe that there are things people can do to get into hell. By definition it would take a certain amount of effort not to do these things. Even with the much needed grace of God.

Just because someone does something '

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That looks good makes it good

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It is how the heart feels what is being done when it is being given to another

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Think of how would if feel to take a family to a buffet that has not had a meal for a long time

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And sit at the table with them seeing the children eat till their stomach is full to the top

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And seeing and hearing the stories that they tell while at that table

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This is what it means

Try it once and you will receive a gift in return that will make you cry in happiness when you are alone

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When Paul talks about grace vs. works, he is speaking of the works of the LAW OF MOSES. Not about following the commandments of Christ. There was this on-going argument between the Apostles of Christ, as to whether or not the Law of Moses should be followed, and especialy whether or not the new gentile/pagan converts should be required to follow the LofM, especially by the "gospel of circumcision" which is the "other gospel" spoken of by Paul to the Galatians.

From what I understand, it's sort of like this, it really is impossible for our works alone to save us--simply because of our imperfect nature. Works alone can't save anybody from the effects of sin--only the grace of Christ can overcome that.

From what I understand as well, Christ offers His grace on the conditions of repentance. True repentance is a change of heart, which to me, implies a good deal of effort/"work". It is after we have exerted ourselves and put forth our best effort, that Christ uses His grace to make up for all that we lack--and we all lack a lot.

Hence the scripture that is most often quoted from the Book of Mormon on the subject, "ye are saved by grace, after all that ye can do."

We do believe that it is grace that redeems men from sin.

That you can not work your way to salvation,it believing that Jesus died for your sin.Isa.45:22 says Look unto me,and be ye saved,all the ends of the earth:..

It didn't say work unto me,it said look.This is God calling through Jesus.Rev 3:20 Behold,I stand at the door and knock if any man hear my voice and open unto me I will come in..Jesus will come in if you say Jesus come in and be my saver to day, Amen

“I am not unmindful of the scripture that declares: ‘by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.’ (Ephesians 2:8.) That is absolutely true, for man in his taking upon himself mortality was impotent to save himself. When left to grope in a natural state, he would have become, and did become, so we are told in modern scripture, ‘carnal, sensual, and devilish, by nature.’ (Alma 42:10.) But the Lord, through his grace, appeared to man, gave him the gospel or eternal plan whereby he might rise above the carnal and selfish things of life and obtain spiritual perfection. But he must rise by his own efforts and he must walk by faith.

“‘He who would ascend the stairway leading upward to eternal life must tread it step by step from the base stone to the summit of its flight. Not a single stair can be missed, not one duty neglected, if the climber would avoid danger and delay and arrive with all safety and expedition at the topmost landing of the celestial exaltation.’ The responsibility is upon each individual to choose the path of righteousness, of faithfulness and duty to fellow men. If he choose otherwise and as a result meets failure, misery, and death, he alone is to blame.” (David O. McKay in CR, Apr. 1957, p. 7. Italics added.)

I think the most important thing that you could know about me is that I KNOW for certain that i am going to heaven when i die. And this is how I KNOW, and how you can KNOW.

- In Romans 3:23 it says "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

We are all sinners. We have all lied, disobeyed our parents, taken something that wasn't ours, something. We have ALL sinned.

- In Romans 6:23 it says "For the wages of sin is death".

A 'wage' is something you earn or deserve. Because we ALL a have sinned, we have ALL earned or deserve death.

'Death' in the bible means separation, and its talking about separation from God in a place called hell.

Now this is bad news but it gets a lot better so keep reading.

- Romans 5:8 says, "But God demonstrated His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ DIED FOR US."

Christ died for us on the cross to pay for our penalty for sin.

- Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the GIFT of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast."

Grace means 'undeserved favor or kindness'. God is offering us something that we do NOT DESERVE. Faith simply means 'to trust in or rely on'.

- 1 John 5:13 says, "These things I have written to you who BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life".

The bible says that we simply must BELIEVE that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins in order to go to heaven.

Another good verse is John 3:16. It says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever BELIEVES in Him should NOT PERISH but have EVERLASTING LIFE."

- Another one is Acts 16:31. “BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved".

If you go to hell you will go with your sins paid for. Jesus Christ has already done all of the work.

- John 3:18 says, "He who BELIEVES in Him is NOT CONDEMNED; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

All you have to do is BELIEVE that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. And there is nothing that any of us can ever do to deserve heaven. If we got what we deserved we would go strait to hell. That is why Jesus Christ came down to earth to die on a cross to pay for our sins. It is Amazing when you really think about it.

And once you've believed you can never lose your salvation. These verses say that you can KNOW that you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. If you could lose your salvation you could never know for sure that you are going to heaven. All you must do is Believe on Jesus Christ, our Saviour.

So whats it gonna be? Life is short and you must understand this before you die. You never know when your life will come to an end.

As it says in James 4:14, "whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away."