Trinity Proof Texts??

Question

Matthew 28:19 reads: “Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
Do those verses say that God, Christ, and the holy spirit constitute a Trinitarian Godhead, that the three are equal in substance, power, and eternity? No, they do not, no more than listing three people, such as Tom, Dick, and Harry, means that they are three in one.
This type of reference, admits McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, “proves only that there are the three subjects named, . . . but it does not prove, by itself, that all the three belong necessarily to the divine nature, and possess equal divine honor.”

“I and the Father Are One”
THAT text, at John 10:30, is often cited to support the Trinity, even though no third person is mentioned there. But Jesus himself showed what he meant by his being “one” with the Father. At John 17:21, 22, he prayed to God that his disciples “may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, . . . that they may be one just as we are one.” Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become a single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in thought and purpose, as he and God were.—See also 1 Corinthians 1:10.
At 1 Corinthians 3:6, 8, Paul says: “I planted, Apollos watered . . . He that plants and he that waters are one.” Paul did not mean that he and Apollos were two persons in one; he meant that they were unified in purpose. The Greek word that Paul used here for “one” (hen) is neuter, literally “one (thing),” indicating oneness in cooperation. It is the same word that Jesus used at John 10:30 to describe his relationship with his Father. It is also the same word that Jesus used at John 17:21, 22. So when he used the word “one” (hen) in these cases, he was talking about unity of thought and purpose.

“Making Himself Equal to God”?

AT PHILIPPIANS 2:6 the Catholic Douay Version (Dy) of 1609 says of Jesus: “Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” The King James Version (KJ) of 1611 reads much the same. A number of such versions are still used by some to support the idea that Jesus was equal to God. But note how other translations render this verse:
1869: “who, being in the form of God, did not regard it as a thing to be grasped at to be on an equality with God.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.
1965: “He—truly of divine nature!—never self-confidently made himself equal to God.” Das Neue Testament, revised edition, by Friedrich Pfäfflin.
1968: “who, although being in the form of God, did not consider being equal to God a thing to greedily make his own.” La Bibbia Concordata.
1976: “He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to become equal with God.” Today’s English Version.
1984: “who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.
1985: “Who, being in the form of God, did not count equality with God something to be grasped.” The New Jerusalem Bible.
Some claim, however, that even these more accurate renderings imply that (1) Jesus already had equality but did not want to hold on to it or that (2) he did not need to grasp at equality because he already had it.

“I Am”
AT JOHN 8:58 a number of translations, for instance The Jerusalem Bible, have Jesus saying: “Before Abraham ever was, I Am.” Was Jesus there teaching, as Trinitarians assert, that he was known by the title “I Am”? And, as they claim, does this mean that he was Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures, since the King James Version at Exodus 3:14 states: “God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM”?

The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or a title but as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Hence, note how some other Bible versions render John 8:58:
1869: “From before Abraham was, I have been.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.
1935: “I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.
1965: “Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.
1981: “I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible.
1984: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.
Thus, the real thought of the Greek used here is that God’s created “firstborn,” Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.—Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation 3:14.
Again, the context shows this to be the correct understanding. This time the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to “have seen Abraham” although, as they said, he was not yet 50 years old. (Verse 57) Jesus’ natural response

X · Accepted Answer

The fact of the matter is, the Bible clearly differentiates between Jesus Christ and Almighty God. They are NOT one and the same, and they never have been. Jesus was brought into being, he was created BY God.....which automatically means he is NOT God himself. 

Here are some other scriptures that make it abundantly clear that Jesus IS NOT God. 

Matthew 16:15, 16 (this is Jesus speaking to his apostles about who he is): "He said to them: "You, though, who do you say I am?" In answer, Simon Peter said: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." - (Right away, Jesus own close apostles and disciples knew that Jesus was not God himself. They knew him to be a separate, subordinate being in relation to the Almighty God.)

Revelation 3:14 (talking about Jesus) describes him as "the beginning of the creation by God". - (So one that is created by another is never equal to the one that created them. It plainly says that God started his creation with Jesus.)

John 20:31 (this verse is right after the account where Jesus appeared before Thomas) says: "But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name." (Again, that experience shows that Jesus' own apostles knew Jesus to be God's son, and NOT God himself.)

John 20:17 (Jesus appeared before Mary Magdalene after his death and resurrection): "Jesus said to her: 'Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God'." - (So very clearly, Jesus told Mary that when he returned to heaven, he would be returning before the god that they worshipped and that HE worshipped as well. Jesus and his followers worshipped the same god.....again demonstrating that Jesus himself is NOT God.)

John 14:28 (Jesus clearly makes the distinction between himself and Almighty God) says: "You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming (back) to you. If you loved me you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am." - (Again, Jesus reiterates that he is lesser than his Father. The Father, God, the one who sent Jesus to the earth, is superior to Jesus and therefore, NOT Jesus.)

John 1:34 (the testimony of John the Baptizer): "And I have seen (it), and I have borne witness that this one is the Son of God." - John, the one who baptized Jesus in the Jordan and heard God's voice from heaven offers his truthful testimony to the fact that Jesus is NOT God, but God's Son.)

Mark 5:7 (the account of Jesus encountering a demon-possessed man who lived among the caves and memorial tombs. Notice what the demons said when Jesus approached:) "and, when he had cried out with a loud voice, he said: "What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I put you under oath by God not to torment me." - (Again, take note that the demons, enemies of God and Jesus, fully acknowledged the fact that Jesus is God's Son and NOT that Jesus was God himself. Ask yourself......if the demons, who had once been angels in heaven in Jesus' presence and God's presence, will acknowledge the fact that Jesus and God are not the same, how can anyone else contradict that?)

Matthew 28:18: "And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." - (Again, think about it.....Jesus had to be GIVEN that authority, meaning he didn't have it before. And he had to be GIVEN that authority from someone superior to him who had it to give. That superior person was God. Thus, again, Jesus is not and was not God.)

Mark 13:32 (in reference to knowledge of the time when this system of things will end): "Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father." - (So clearly, if the Father knows something that the Son does not, obviously Jesus is not God and not equal to God.)

Revelation 1:1 says: "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented (it) in signs through him to his slave John," - (And yet one more time, there's a chain of individuals that John's revelation came through before it reached him. The topmost was from Almighty God himself, who gave it to Jesus, who passed it to an angel, who delivered it to John. Again, this shows very clearly that Jesus is NOT God. If Jesus were God, then he would have received that revelation from himself, and so that scripture wouldn't have made any sense.)

Acts 7:55 (just before the martyr Stephen was stoned to death, he saw a vision of heaven): "But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God's glory and of Jesus standing at God's right hand," - (Yet again, he sees Jesus as standing at God's side, at God's favored position, separate and distinct from God himself. He clearly saw two separate individuals.)

(NOTE) - Some will try and use John 10:31 "I and the father are one" to try and prove that Jesus is God. But again, careful consideration of the verse, the context, and even Jesus' words further on in the book of John in John 17:21, 22 shows that "I and the father are one" DOES NOT equal "The father and I are the same person". And why is that? At John 17:21, 22, Jesus prayed regarding his followers: “That they may all be one,” and he added, “that they may be one even as we are one.” He used the same Greek word (hen) for “one” in all these instances. Obviously, Jesus’ disciples do not all become part of the Trinity. But they do come to share a oneness of purpose with the Father and the Son, the same sort of oneness that unites God and Christ.

Mayflower · Answer

You forgot to dissect the following:

a] 1 John 5:7, paying attention to 'And these three are one.'
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one. 
[Note the emphasis on the word 'the Father, the Son and the HS]

b] Rev 1:8 
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "the one who is and who was and who is to come, the almighty." 

c] Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...
Notes: The scripture plainly states in Deut. 6:4, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" And in Eph. 4:5, "One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"...."God," in Genesis chapter 1, comes from the Hebrew, "Elohim." = form is plural.
Note the comment from the Ryrie Study Bible, "Elohim, a generic term for deity as well as a proper name for the true God... . Its basic meaning is "strong one, mighty leader, supreme Deity." The form of the word is plural, indicating plentitude of power and majesty and allowing for the NT revelation of the triunity of the Godhead."

edit 1: chris s, 
1 John:  that's what happen if you use a mistranslation version. Check the catholic bible.
Rev 1 is clear.. Jesus is Almighty.. check the catholic bible.
Genesis: Elohim is already plural denoting the holy trinity.

Anonymous · Answer

exactly :)

its simple to 'argue' the trinity, i have never found a scripture to prove it that i cant answer :)

edit:

St Thecla 

john 5:7, do some further research into that, it does not appear i nthe original bible text

Rev 1:8, nowhere else in the bible is jesus called 'almighty' only god is. jesus is never called 'almighty', only 'mighty'

in original text, it clearly uses gods name (jehovah in english)

genesis? i cant make sense of your description

freetothink · Answer

Priests talk of trinity as "It is a Mystery, not explained by Jesus (peace be upon him) clearly", at that time again those forget that Jesus said, 

"I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing" (John 18:20 (NKJ)). 

If trinity is confusing enough to be called a mystery, it cannot be from God. Because:
"God is not a God of confusion."—1 Corinthians 14:33, Revised Standard Version (RS). 

People who give examples of an Egg or a family have to ask themselves whether they are “explaining” a theory like many unproven theories, or are they “proving” it.

There was no mystery in the message of Jesus, nothing secret. 

(A) Jesus numerous times clearly told us about oneness of god:

1) Mark 12:29: "the Lord our God, the lord is One". 
2) Matthew 4:10 "You shall worship the Lord, your God, and him only you shall serve" 
3) Matthew 27:46: "Eloi (Allah?) , Eloi, lama sabachthani?" -- which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" 

(B) Just not that, Jesus clearly told us about God and his relationship. Also he told us that god is not in human body form.

4) John 4:24: God is SPIRIT, and those who are worshipping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth.
5) Mark 12:29: "the Lord our God, the lord is One". 
6) Metthew: 26:39: "He went a little farther and fell on His face and prayed" (Following Jesus (pbuh) way is following what he did). Jesus (pbuh) prayed to one God
7) John 5:19: "Most truly I say to you, the son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative but only what he beholds the father doing."

(C ) Jesus Taught us that he is a messenger (prophet) of God who was given the book (bible), which leaves no room for interpretations or believing in any other belief other than what Jesus directly taught us. 

(8) John 7:16: “Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me”
(9) John : 8:54 ”Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God”
(D) Trinity doctrine of priests teaches us of three in one god all three co equal co existent. But Jesus tell us that he is noway equal to one God.

(10) John 14:28 reads-- " You heard that I said to you,I am going away and i am coming back to you. If you loved me , you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father,BECAUSE THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I AM"

(11) Matthew 19:17. "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."


Anything which contradicts above clear teachings of Jesus should be up to scrutiny to see if such teachings are coming from Jesus directly or from any other human being, and to see whether such teachings have been correctly translated or not, and things become very clear.
---------------------------------
Now let’s check what believers of trinity use from current translated bible, and you will know it is sad to ignore clear commandments of Jesus and go for wrongly translated, and wrongly interpreted unclear verses. 

1) John 10:30 (KJV) "I and my Father are one."

You should also see where all " x + x are one" used in Bible to understand the perspective. eg,

John 17:11 "So keep them safe by the power of the name that you have given me. Then they will be one with each other, just as you and I are one."

"They will be saved with eachother, the way I am saved with you." 

Does it mean that 11 deciphers were actually one?

It definately means one in purpose, that's all. (John 17:11 and 22). It is all upon how it has been translated. 

--------------------------------------...
2) 1 John 5:7-8 (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 

But then people forget again, that it is a matter of translation from a dead language. As same verse has been translated in totally different way from the original.

(RSV) [7] And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth. [8] There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree. 
(NKJV) Footnote - NU-Text and M-Text omit the words from in heaven (verse 7) through 

Also people forget whether these verses are coming from original scripture or has been added to Bible.
John 5:7 ,,,, was thrown out of it in RSV. by 32 scholars of highest eminent, backed by 50 cooperating denominations. 

G. W. and D. E. Anderson in his book "WHY 1 JOHN 5.7–8 IS IN THE BIBLE" mentions referring to different scholars:

The words do not occur in any Greek MS, version or quotation before the fifteenth century.

? · Answer

Trinity Proof Texts

truth · Answer

God exists in 3 persons -- the Father, the Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit

Y · Answer

Hi, 
Each one of your verses is open to more than one interpretation.

I am the father are one -

If I say to you, "I and my co-worker are one". What does that mean to you. Of course, it would be one in purpose.

You cannot insist on a meaning, if it can mean more than one.

The I am saying - one of the most misused saings in the whole bible. If you are saying tha Jesus existed before Abraham, that still does not mean that he is God.

Preston · Answer

Emma, I'm with you!

I'm sold. The proof is in the pudding.

The bible doesn't lie!

Anonymous · Answer

doctrinal feuds were written down and distributed back then, just as they are today

now though, youre not allowed to call new ones "scripture"

christians really should just upgrade to christianity 2.0

Matthew · Answer

The Godhead/Trinity teaching is sound Bible doctrine.

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Trinity Proof Texts??

11 Answers