Christians - If King David, a man after God's heart, is NOT in heaven?

Many Christians do accept the facts you have stated. I am one of them.

edit: in my opinion, the reason mainstream Christianity rejects this belief is because if they did accept it, their house of cards would collapse. This belief does not allow for an immortal soul. Without an immortal soul there is no eternal torment in hell. These basic doctrines are at the core of mainstream Christian beliefs and to give them up would be to admit they are wrong and have been mislead. That is not likely to happen.

The reason this issuch a problem in the christian church is because

froma young age people are taught they are going to heaven when they die. This of course is not true, BUT it is so ingrained that no one

wants to find out its not true as there goes their security blanket.

The Truth is we are not promised heaven, but the earth, now where

was Gan eden but on the earth, where is Paradise, paradisio & what

does it mean? Well Paradise is Gan Eden the Garden of EDEN, so where was the Garden? On the earth of course. Where do the spirits

of those who sleep go? Gan Eden/Paradise. To do what? Await the

resurrection of the dead, so they can be reunited with the resurrected

body.

Many people who have died or had a near death experience, speak of

being in a garden, beautiful flowers, greener tha green grass etc. WHY? They are experiencing the Garden of EDEN. Many report seeing

a beautiful place in the distance they cannot reach. Heaven.

One person mentioned Heb12:23, this of course is not talking about

being in Heaven, BUT our names are written in heaven, in the books.

Recorded there in readiness for the Judgement of the righteous & if

not there for the White Throne Judgement.

The righteous come with Messiah to the earth to be reunited with their

resurrected bodies, but I feel they come from the Garden of Eden,which

is where Yeshua promised the repentant thief he would be with Him, in

the Garden/Paradise.

Absent from the body present with the Lord? Yes, but heaven is not

our home, we may visit there, I do not know, but wherever Messiah is

we are, so if He goes we go, but this is only stated after He appears &

the dead in Messiah rise up & then those who are alive. So we go

where He goes only after the 1st Resurrection. Until that time I believe

the righteous dead are in the Garden with Messiah, the fact that He

can go anywhere does not mean we can.

Yeshua specifically said He was the only one who had descended &

ascended. For us to say anything else we make Him a liar & the Truth

is not in us.

It was Jesus not David as the rest of the passage reads-that you left out. And the saints of the O.T. times was before Jesus crushed the gates of hell where the believers were held before Christ's death and resurrection. They are now in heaven, Heb.12:23. And to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord who ascended to heaven.

Jesus was God made flesh, JOhn 1:1,14.

The 'dead' Paul was talking about was the flesh bodies that would be resurrected at the return of Christ.= which will be cleased and saved also.

The theif on the cross went to Paradise that same day- this was not his flesh body that went to Paradise. (Paradise is in heaven, 2 Cor.12:2-4;Rev.2:7 - to say otherwise is to add the viewpoints of man- not God's!)

What part of these scriptures don't you understand????????

I am a Christadelphian and we preach the resurrection and the Kingdom as well. Jesus says Matthew 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done....20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. "End Times".... Where did Jesus go that day? He went to the grave...then 3 days later he was resurrected, 40 days later he ascended to heaven. Note the thief said "WHEN" you enter your Kingdom. Also, Greek does not have punctuation. Hebrews 11: 39-40 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect. All these and David...still dead...awaiting the return of our Lord Jesus. Ecc 9:5-6 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun. The idea of an immortal soul is nowhere in the Bible. "Paradisemtn" Psalm 90:10 does not mean we have an immortal soul, The psalmist compares life to a bird that quickly flies off (see Job 20:8). The words mean : and we fly away `uwph (oof) to cover (with wings or obscurity); hence to fly; also (by implication of dimness) to faint (from the darkness of swooning) Also: Your quote from Philippians - It is mistakenly assumed "to depart" means to be immediately with Christ. Paul indicated where his hope lay for being in the presence of the Lord. This was in the return of Christ and the resurrection. Note the following passages: 1. "Until the day of Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:6,10; 2:16). 2. "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead." (Phil. 3:11). 3. "We look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body. . . " (Phil. 3:20-21).

Oh for the love of...

If you're going to quote scripture PLEASE quote it correctly!

It's so infuriating to see people misrepresenting what is said in the bible because they only read or present a small snippet of a large body of text:

"My brothers, one can confidently say to you about the patriarch David that he died and was buried, and his tomb is in our midst to this day. But since he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne, he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that neither was he abandoned to the netherworld nor did his flesh see corruption. God raised this Jesus; of this we are all witnesses. Exalted at the right hand of God, 6 he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear. For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."' Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified."

He is clearly speaking about the resurrection, and thus defining why Jesus is greater than even David, who while a great king beloved by God, died, was buried, and did not raise whole from his tomb. Jesus did, and that is why he is the Christ. This is by NO means insinuating that David isn't in heaven.

And if Jesus is the only one who goes to heaven, why did he tell that thief that "today you will be with me in paradise." Please don't claim the thief was a special case. You know that's a stretch. Our souls enter into Heaven upon our physical completion.

Actually, Both are Correct, from a certain point of View, One is God's and the other is mans, see what you have here is a temporal Time paradox.

You see, From King Davids point of View he is in heaven simply because he does not experience the passage of time as we do, to him, lets say the Resurrection happened today, the 3000 plus years between David and now was only a few seconds from that point of view, he Just does experience the passage of time

When a Christian dies, their soul goes to be with the Lord in heaven --- yes, the physical body will lay in the grave until Jesus Christ returns in the air to take the saved out of here..................

I was at the bedside of my Daddy when he left this world --- he did NOT go to sleep................he left, my friend.............It was evident that when he departed from here --- he was gonna arrive somewhere.........

I thank my Saviour that I can be assured of that same experience when I must cross Jordan for myself..................Yes, I feel confident that I will meet King David in heaven, as well........................

God Bless...................

EDIT: If I truly thought that either of my parents were merely sleeping --- there is absolutely NO way I would have let their bodies be buried in the first place --- and they sure wouldn't have stayed under ground for any amount of time...................

Old Testament Saints are indeed dead, and will be resurrected with those when Lord Jesus returns.

Those who are Christians who are dead, if my interpretations are correct, are in Heaven in a soul state. Revelation speaks of martyred souls under the Alter of God who asks when vengeance will be had.

Jesus paid the high price for our salvation. First the one thief on the cross was born again & went to paradise. Then when the veil was rent; also the Saints from Paradise, their souls now spiritualized, raised up & appeared to many.

These went on up to the 3rd heaven. Because the price for redemption has been paid.

So Jesus is only the first born from the dead, in that He raised up an everlasting flesh & bone. While the rest of the body of Christ are raised up spiritual souls, until resurrection day complete.

So the Saints in heaven first raise up and put on an everlasting body, then those on earth with oil full in their lamps are raised up like Jesus & go through a metamorphose.

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jBefore the Lamb of God died for our sins & raised up for our justification, Paradise was down under accross from hell. Compare Jesus parable with Abraham's bosom & hell torment. and the great gulf that separated them. Also in the OT, when disobedient King Saul asked a necromancer to conjure up the LORD's Prophet from Paradise; The Prophet came up from down under & asked Saul why Saul disturbed his rest. And then that Saul & Sauls son would soon be with him, down under, in Abrahams bosom.

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The dead in Christ are those whose spiritual souls are in heaven with the Lord (To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord.).

The dead in Christ will change first. These are the OT, NT & all redeemed Saints who have physically died already. But their spiritual souls never died. Only Their bodies.

Then those who physically haven't died yet will raise up when we see Jesus as He Is!

Get ready. We are going to see the Fathers Son, the King, very very soon!

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As A Christian, our bodies die. Jesus said that if we have faith in Him; Though we die (our bodies) yet shall we live (our spiritual soul). That is where eternal life is in us.

But Jesus is firstborn from the dead. He Is the only one who is raised up an everlasting flesh & bone so far. That is yet to come.

Perry Stone has preached on this and is a pre tribber also.

One of the best Bible scholars in history disagrees with you.

And he is as modern as rDNA.

http://www.newmanreader.org/works/parochial/volume...

"They are incomplete, as being neither awake nor asleep; I mean, they are in a state of rest, not in the full employment of their powers. The Angels are serving God actively; they are ministers between heaven and earth. And the Saints, too, one day shall judge the world—they shall judge the fallen Angels; but at present, till the end comes, they are at rest only, which is enough for their peace, enough for our comfort on thinking of them, still, incomplete, compared with what one day shall be."

And all from Scripture.