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Jehovah's Witnesses, in the NWT it reads as follows in Colossians 1:15-17?
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist.
The insertion of the word [other] in brackets in these verse are not in the original writings. If you read these verses without the word [other] would it not harmonize with the other passages in the bible such as:
John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Romans 11:36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Ephesians 1:10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him
"First-born" (Gr. prototokos) may denote either priority in time or supremacy in rank (cf. v. 18; Exod. 4:22; Ps. 89:27; Rom. 8:29; Heb. 1:6;Rev. 1:15). It may also denote both of these qualities. Both seem to be in view here. Christ was before all creation in time, and He is over all creation in authority. In view of the context (vv. 16-20), the major emphasis seems to be on His sovereignty, however.48 What "first-born" does not mean is that Christ was the first created being, which ancient Arians believed and modern Jehovah's Witnesses teach. This is clear because verses 16-18 state that Christ existed before all things and is the Creator Himself. Other passages also affirm His responsibility for creation (cf. John 1:3; 3:16; Rom. 8:29; Heb. 1:6; 11:28; 12:23)
The Greek word for 'Firstborn' is prototokos. If Christ were the 'firstcreated,' the Greek word would have been protoktisis.
The whole point of the passage (and the book) is to show Christ's superiority over all things.
So how do you explain the added words that do not hamonize with the bible? What is your explanation of this verse?
Desert Rose-
(NWT)1 “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he must clear up a way before me. And suddenly there will come to His temple the [true] Lord, whom YOU people are seeking, and the messenger of the covenant in whom YOU are delighting. Look! He will certainly come,” Jehovah of armies has said.
(NIV) 1 "I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty.
I will send a messenger (angel), who will prepare a the way for me (Jesus) who is the messenger of the covenant.
It's so much like a JW to twist this verse to match your doctrine! But it doesn't work.
I am coming to believe that JW's have eyes but can not see, nor read. They have ears but can not hear. Have you not read peacelily's answer or Jamie S or Question It Alls answers. You guys seem like everything just goes over your head and you have to revert to what the watchtower tells you, is this not correct or what?
I challange any JW to completely read peacelily's answer and read the scripture that comes with it.
Angelo-
You ask, Does that make any sense? Did Jesus make God? Or, for that matter, did Jesus make himself? The other answer is if you understood the Trinity and knew that Jesus was God then the word other would not be needed for clairifacation. God did not create himself, Jesus as God din't create himself. They have always been. So if yor read Col 1:15-17 without [other] and John1:3 they harmonize the same.
bar_enosh
God has GIVEN Christ superiority over all things, but not over God Himself.
This verse does not mention that God gave Jesus superiority over all things. It just tells us that Jesus has superiority over all created things. God was never created, nor was Jesus. When we read about Jesus in the flesh, in his human state, he would have to answer to God due to his being made to be lower then the angels and made flesh, human. If you had a clear understanding of God you would understand Col. 1 to mean just as it says without the word [other] added.
natasha r
If you do not have the ability or the mental capacity to answer the question, please exit in the rear. You dare question me and my faith, with an answer like that. We know whom you follow, the fallen.
natasha r
You have got to know that there are many here that perform plagiarism by copying straight out of the bible. But then we know that you don't do such a thing as you don't have a real bible, do you (NWT)
natasha r
Why do Jehovah's Witnesses mistakenly propose that anyone whom is not a JW or whom disagree with the Watchtower's Organization considered to be opposing Jehovah? It's surely not that you guys are trying to control whom gets Jehovah and who doesn't, or am I just reading something into your comment that you made an error with?
29 Answers
- peacelilyLv 71 decade agoFavorite Answer
Actually, “firstborn” in this case doesn’t mean firstborn son, as some have asserted here. In some cases, the biblical meaning of “firstborn,” whether translated from the Greek word prototokos or the Hebrew word bekowr is “first in rank” or “preeminent.” Context determines the proper definition. In 1 Sam 17:12-14, we read that David was the youngest of 8 sons. Yet, in Psalm 89:19-27, David is referred to as “firstborn.” Ephraim was the 2nd born to his father, yet he is called “firstborn” in Jer 31:9. The Jews (Israel) were called God’s “firstborn” in Ex 4:22.
Psalm 93:2 says of God: “Your throne is established from of old; You are from everlasting.” “Everlasting” is translated from the Hebrew word owlam (Strong’s H5769). In Micah 5:2, Jesus is described using the exact same Hebrew word: “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.” Jesus was not created!
You are absolutely right...it is always best to look to other Scripture for harmony and to interpret Scripture, and the following passage answers most of the objections raised here: Phil 2:5:11: “Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, {and} being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Jesus existed as God, but emptied Himself in order to become the propitiation for our sin. In His human state, He needed the assistance of the Father to exalt Him back to the glory He had with the Father prior to being made in the likeness of men. (John 17:5: "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was). (Compare Isa 42:8: I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images). The problem is, cults reject all paradoxes of Scripture (they only accept one concept and reject the other) as well as anything they can’t explain.
They also know their “proof texts,” but rarely have any substantial Bible knowledge outside of them. Case in point…Desert’s Rose’s statement, “NEVER in the bible God almighty says that he would come to earth....he has many messengers”
She has obviously never come in contact with Zech 14:5: “And Jehovah my God will certainly come, all the holy ones being with him,” nor with Jude 14-15: “Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads to execute judgment against all and to convict all the ungodly deeds that they did..." (NWT) Also, the concept of the Trinity she puts forward is the same straw man the WTS uses, and it’s not accurate. Trinitarians don’t claim that Jesus and the Father are the same person. The Bible teaches that there are three kinds of personal beings: God, humans and angels. I am a created being—a human being, and I am one person. My being makes me human, and my personality is what distinguishes me from other human beings. Because my being is finite and limited by time, space and matter only one person can exist within my being, and that person’s user name is peacelily. However, the Bible tells me that God is eternal, that He has always existed; (Psalm 90:2) that He is infinite (Job 11:7-9); He is omnipotent (Gen. 17:1, Mt. 19:26); He is above and outside of time, space and matter because He created them (Gen. 1:1; 2 Pet. 3:8); He is omniscient (Ps. 147:5, Heb. 4:13); He is sovereign and free (Ps. 135:6, Is. 14:24); He is omnipresent (Jer. 23:23-24); He is all this and so much more, and He is also unsearchable and incomprehensible (Ps. 145:3, Is. 55:8-9; Rom. 11:33-34). Because God’s being is infinite and unlimited, it can be, and is shared by three persons—the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This concept is supported by Scripture from Genesis through Revelation.
Source(s): The Holy Bible Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Reference Library Ed. (1981) -- Prototokos is used of Christ...further in His relationship to the Father, expressing His priority to, and preeminence over creation, not in the sense of being the first to be born (p. 104). [EDIT] ALWAYS allow Scripture to interpret Scripture. "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence." Obviously, Jesus wasn't the first ever raised from the dead. He raised three people from the dead, and we read of others raised in the OT. Jesus was the supreme or preeminent one raised from the dead. There is your definition. - Anonymous5 years ago
Question: Why did the Jehovah's Witnesses change God's word in Colossians in NWT? A misconception. God's word remains the same. However, translators do add English words for clarification. This is done with bibles that were translated by trinitarians as well, but trinitarians go a step further to add words that change the meaning of the verse. King James Version Acts 7:59 "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." There is no [God] or theos in the Greek text. Topic: All other (pas) Pas or all in Greek can mean "all other" hence no need for brackets. Take for example the NIV (1984 ) bible it adds "all other" when the word other is not specifically mentioned in the Greek text and with out brackets. 1 Corinthians 6:18 "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body" Other is also added to the King James Version when it is not in the Greek text. Acts 5:29 "Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered" The reason for this is because the Greeks take the word other for granted and expect the reader to know that even though they do not write other they mean it. Scholars like Blass, Debrunner and Funk mention: The omission of the notion 'other, whatever' (§ 306 (5)) is specifically Greek." Trianatrian Discrepancies: 1) None of the Trianatrians mention the above. Do they understand how Greek works? 2) The Trianatrian translation of the King James Version adds "other" when it is not in the Greek. 3) The Trianatrian translation of the King James Version is inconsistent as it does not add the word other to Col 1:16-17 making the trinity God a created being. "...all things created..."
- ReadTheKJBLv 51 decade ago
I find the addiction of the word 'other' in this passage to be an addition that changes the meaning and to be in direct contradiction to the following claims about the NWT:
“What kind of translation is this? For one thing, it is an accurate, largely literal translation from the original languages. It is not a loose paraphrase, in which the translators leave out details that they consider unimportant and add ideas they believe will be helpful.” (Reasoning from the Scriptures, p.277)
“It is because of its modern, understandable language, also because the translators held so closely to what is in the original Bible languages.” (Reasoning from the Scriptures, p. 279)
“If someone deliberately changes or omits part of the contents of the Bible, he is tampering with the inspired Word.” (The Divine Name That Will Endure Forever p. 5)
If it's not a contradiction, then please show me where it isn't.
- Question It AllLv 51 decade ago
The jw's on here say that no matter if the word OTHER is there or not, the context of the reading is not changed. Let's assume they are correct for a moment and apply that reasoning to some other Bible texts tha thave had the word OTHER sprinkled throughout them.
Genesis 1:1
In [the] beginning the OTHER God created the OTHER heavens and the OTHER earth
Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the OTHER Jehovah will be saved
John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only OTHER true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, the OTHER Jesus Christ
Isaiah 43:11
I—I am the OTHER Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.
John 1:1
In [the] OTHER beginning the OTHER Word was, and the OTHER Word was with the OTHER God, and the OTHER Word was the OTHER god.
Colossians 1:15
He is the OTHER image of the OTHER invisible God, the OTHER firstborn of all OTHER creation
See how adding the word OTHER doesn't change the meaning of these texts?
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- MicahLv 61 decade ago
I totally agree with my brothers & sisters, but Bernard's answer is excellent. He makes some very good points. I hope you consider all our answers carefully, but especially take note of his.
John 8:32 (New King James Version)
" And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
LOBT
- 1 decade ago
I am not an elder so the only answer is that we are nothing like the muslims. I believe the real Bible and know that Jesus is the only begotten Son of Jehovah. He set the example for his true followers and we are doing his commands.
Everyday lives are saved by doing the ministry work. And Jehovah's Witnesses show faithfulness by trusting what we are taught.
- Fair N skwareLv 51 decade ago
The added word "other" doesn't change the meaning of that particular sentence, one bit.
-------
Jesus is our mediator. Not our God.
1 Tim 2:5 -For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus---
Therefore Jesus cannot be God and our Mediator.
There can be no sense in making yourself a mediator between yourself and man, what would be the point? There is none.... Remember God is not a God of disorder, but of peace....1 Cor 14:33
Why is the Trinity so vague and such a mystery.
Because it has NO bible support, and yet you keep clinging to it. Why?
**Question it.***
The logic you used is hilarious,.......I am at a loss for words.
- lillieLv 61 decade ago
Instead of trying to belittle Jehovah's Witnesses who I might add are the only religious organisation on earth to have a accurate and thorough understanding of the Holy Scriptures, you may do well yourself to research your material before you go mouthing off and proving that you do not know as much as you would like to think.....
I only had to go to two other sources(non Watchtower publications) to disprove what you are claiming.
1. VINE'S complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament
Words on page 240 under the heading of FIRST-BEGOTTEN,
FIRSTBORN and
2.The INTERLINEAR Bible by Sovereign Grace Publishers on page
914 where the greek word is literally translated 'firstborn"
Get your facts,do some research.The whole Bible is harmonious.
Proverbs8:22,25-26; 1Cor8:6; 1John5:18; Rev.3:14 just to name a few scriptures that are in harmony with the fact that Jesus was created by Jehovah God and everything else was created through him.
Source(s): new world translation bible Vines expository Interlinear bible - ?Lv 66 years ago
God is the guiding us in our activity. The Bible is his written word and by his spirit it is preserved alive. God is perfectly capable protecting his word. After all he had his beautiful powerful name put back in it, even in the new Devine Name King James bible.
- grnlowLv 71 decade ago
Desert Rose seems to know you much better than I.
It is apparent from the brackets used [] that the word "other" was added as an English word to allow it to make sense as opposed to the Greek sentences. If the NWT wanted to pull something dirty, they would not include the brackets.
You say "This is clear because verses 16-18 state that Christ existed before all things and is the Creator Himself." No it is not. But it is clear that Jesus was used by the Creator, Jehovah, in making everything in creation. That does not make him the Creator as well. All Creation came about using Jehovah's power as at the time, Jesus did not have enough power in himself.
So you only see problems with the NWT because you really really want to see them. Not because there are any.
- 1 decade ago
What's up, Big Guy! Yeah, it's me again....(SMILE)!
I notice something that I'm sure you did NOT want us to see. A type-o!
You see, you left the number 48 there in the paragraph that is supposedly defining the term "firstborn". ( as I stated numerous times before,....you crack me up).
Now; Big Guy, are you performing plagiarism? Are these your exact words, and thought?
Surely if you are going to oppose Jehovah; you have enough gall, to do it on your own. Having the name "Big Guy", I would think you were a leader, not a follower.
Wow, ...now you're about to make me go deep. Can I go deep for a minute? Good!
O.K, let's say hypothetically, that you are a follower. Who are you following? Who can possibly be leading the great "Big Guy"? Surely it has to be someone cunning, smart, vicious and ruthless.
Or maybe someone close to you, like a family member,someone you look up to, like.....a father figure? A manslayer maybe...from the begining...hunh?
Big Guy are you from your Father? Do you wish to do his desire?
Well anyway, I'm sure you are original, so don't worry about it. I'm sure it was a slip of the stroke( i.e. pushed the wrong keys). Therefore, those words you wrote was all you.
However, every time I see one of your post 2 Corinthians 11:14,15 comes to mind, but until your next comic review......Duce!
Source(s): All Me!
