do u feel bad as i do because western men treat their women as a product to sell in sex magazine and sites and?

Let me write my opinion about the very judgemental views presented here. No matter if it is East or West, there are mistakes in both societies.

I am a Western girl, have been to many countries of the world, and what I can say, no matter where you are, people will treat you the way you deserve it. Men in Eastern countries would think, another easy girl - tight clothes, blonde hair, whatever - but one word, or one look at them, and they all knew they were talking to a lady not a slut and behaved that way. There are Arab men who watch porn, who harrass women, who rape women, who unforgiveable things - yet I dont judge the whole society because of it. The same with the West - some behave this way, some behave that way. It has nothing to do with the culture or the religion, but the morals of the individual. I believe there is no culture or religion that would teach anything bad to its followers.

In many countries of Europe prostitution is not legal, still it exists - just the same as Egypt, it is not legal, though there are women who are selling their bodies.

In every monotheist religion sex outside marriage is a sin, although not every culture has the same views on it. I am a virgin, and will stay till my marriage - in my country that is as rare as a white raven, yet I dont care what others think of me. In your religion it is the same, but the culture has different views on it - you follow more your religious and moral traditions, so it is more important for a girl to stay virgin till their marriage - BUT this doesnt mean they do so. I have many friends from Egypt, one of them, a guy - had a gf, she was from a very respected family, she was wearing the hijab, and she was pushing on the guy to ask her hand, because she said islamically it is not allowed to date. So she became his fiance, she was acting how religious and modest she is, but they were having physical relationship - she could be satisfied: everyone thought how good she is, the question is is this being pure? Being modest has nothing to with your clothes, but on the first place with your heart. knowing more and more people from Egypt, I realized, that most of them care more for their reputation than their values and morals.

I believe, the rate of pure or innocent souls is the same on the East and the West, but the rate of people trying to present their rotten souls as something pure is different - for some it is hard to realize that there is someone they cant hide their true selves from...

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@Zoser - although your question was not meant for me to answer, I would like to add, that you probably forgot the most probable option, and it is -LOVE. I dont want to get married to an Egyptian, I want to get married to the man of my life, to the one, who is the centre of my universe, whom I love more than anything else in this world. If some years back I had been asked what nationality would I prefer, I would say mine, and I still think so. I wasnt searching for an Egyptian man, we met accidentally, he walked into my life and changed everything. I guess, it was meant to be.

I am not desperate, I could get any man I want here (literally), I did not want to get married to an Egyptian, but I have fallen in love with one, and I despite of all the differences between us and all the difficulties it may bring, I definitely dont mind that he is one.

2

A Big Lol ! , So what do we all learn from this debate ?

1- Freedoms need to be governed for the sake of people like Zoser said, for example, Porn industry (includes girls & boys not girls only) can not be legal if there is a law that prohibits it, also consumers (again men & women) can not legally buy what is legally unavailable, a simple law can protect the society & most important, will protect children who are paying for our mistakes today. yes there will be illegal industry going on, nothing is perfect, but it will always be illegal & small.

2- Neither the western way of treating women nor the eastern way of treating women is efficient, in my opinion ONLY, treating them the Islamic way solves most of the problems if not all, some people will say oh no, not the Islamic way, it is bla bla bla, my only respond will be "Then why the most religious families are the happiest ? and why are not they leaving Islam if it oppresses them ?"

3- Globalization is not a good thing, why ?, Take Egypt for an example, in the past when we were living by our eastern lifestyle, which was based around family and family's welfare instead of individual's welfare, morals was an integral part of the society, now after being exposed to western life style (Globalization), what did we gain ?, nothing, only we lost family values & morals, and you dare to say the western style is better, sorry, logic says otherwise

4- This debate is not going anywhere, cause both lifestyles are flawed, actually, as i see it, the whole problem is lack of responsibility.

Why it is lack of responsibility ?, easy, imagine that a father cared more about raising his daughter regardless lifestyle, may be she would not have turned up to be a prostitute, same for those who buy the stuff.

If in your opinion, I as a father, preventing my daughter for example from being a prostitute is unfair for her freedom, then i will be more than happy to be called primitive and call you a sack of potato!.

About animals, although it is very wrong to treat them badly in Islam, many Egyptians treat their donkeys & horses badly.

Why is the reason for that, i do not know, may be they found something they can discharge their anger in. Anyway, i read someone saying they are spoiling their animals in the states, i just wanted to say, if those poor people who own the donkeys and the horses had the same amount of money you spoil your animals, I guarantee, he would have done the same with his donkey or horse.

Can i just clear something up here =

Western women CHOOSE to sell their bodies however they want, OR NOT TO. The men do not force them, if a woman wants to be a glamour model, then thats her choice. Very few women choose this path, & it seems we all get stereotyped.

With respect i would also like to point out that lots of Egyptian men do NOT respect women, especially western women. You seem to think that we are all loose, & this is just not true. In my country, if you 'touch me up' you will get a slap, but you seem to think its ok in Egypt to do it = its NOT ok.

As for treating animals with respect, sorry but lol, i've seen my cat treat a mouse better !.

Please do not believe all you are told, read or see, your media only ever gives you one side of the story, i know i lived there.

No nation is perfect, so lets just respect each other.

@ Loool Saydaly, i'm sure i wouldn't need to give you a slap.

@ Radical Vampire, i HAVE hit an Egyptian man twice for touching me up., i'm not a violent person, but it sure helped calm my outrage down, loool.

Sorry for saying so But your Question Frusturated me as it is so generalizing but the following answerers Cooled me down

Zoser

7ala

The minster of common sense

Aussie

Parternerna

I can't add more except to assure something that I were in US the previous weeks and now am in UK .. Nothing from what you are saying is true Cause It is their own choice .. They choose so ...

Plus am a muslim and veiled .. They don't mind. Even more they deal me Delicately and as I wanna

The person is the one who decides the way people gonna deal him/her

That topic you are discussing I jus were discussing it with Philip "a friend" Who told me the same answer as those respected people mentioned above responded

Respect people to be respected , Interfere and you 'll find troubles everywhere ...

And if really you believe sucha things in the media , then Egyptians must be all of them High-class and " singers and dancers" as The minster of common sense said

Don't generalize .. GOD created all .. The difference is in the peoples' charisma,characters, ethics, concepts,morals and way of thinking

And as Parternera said Religion for sure doesn't push somebody to do something wrong or bad ...

and let me tell u something : Those western that you mock them or feel sympathy towards them when they enter islam . They come better than anyone who is originally muslim and "enna allah ghafour rahem" and everything they have done gonna be erased as if nothing happened and a new sheet is prepared for hasanat..

So rather than attacking / feeling sympathy / mocking .. Wish then guidance "hedaya" and don't feel sorry .. Everyone choose and SHOULD bear his/her own choices

Wanna add too to what Mr Zoser said . Simlar stories took a place

Which is a lot of Egyptians and Arabian dudes who sell their wives directly and indirectly "To be prostitutes , to do it with their friends , to gain money for him" alot of disasters are showing up or you don't see or u jus wanna cover !!!

Didn't u read about the Egyptian guy "father" who pushed his daughter to do sex out with other guys to get him money or you didn't hear about the moroccoan father who were doing it with his daughters and also pushing them to do it outta ...

Don't be Bias

Honestly Good and Bad are everywhere . Just open your mind and allow everything to enter then FILTERATE and COMPARE then Get the conclusion

For God sake , Don't you read newspapers !!!.. A wife killed her husband for his harshness and cruleness .. A husband killed his wife cuz HE JUS FEEL dat she is a slut

A guy divorced his gal cuz she is not cooking well / cuz she got fat after the marriage and a gal asked the divorce cuz he is Dependent on her and the wheel goes on .. just stir and you'll find IMPURITIES everywhere and anywhere and SURPRISE that all in the Egyptian newspapers .. O LALA !!!! O Damn !!!

WAKE WAKE

Hey Finally am not attacking .. I were jus trying to answer ...

@ 7ala : I SLAP too Hardly ROFLOOOOLZ :))

Your statements are too general as well as being wrong on most counts ...I suspect that you have fallen into the trap of believing the ' hollywood ' version of the west....

Women in the west were ' liberated ' in the '60s & ' 70s ....the era when equal rights , opportunities etc etc became the catch cry...on the one hand they strived for recognition , equal pay , status etc yet on the other they wanted the nice house , car , children , holidays etc ...now I am being general here & am talking about the radicals like Germaine Greer who were behind the push for all of this stuff...the end result is that women are now finding that all of this is coming at a price & they aren't all supermums ...that at the end of the day there is one huge price to pay & in fact you can't have it all !

As far as prostitution is concerned , that & tax collection are the two oldest professions & have existed since the dawn of time...

It is a fact that temple prostitutes were common throughout the middle east ..to deny that is to deny history !

As for animals being treated better ...OMG , I have never seen so many mangy cats & dogs in one place at one time as I have in the Middle East whereas over here it is the other extreme...people spoil their animals ...treat them better than many poor people in other countries are treated ...that's another story !

I do not agree with that because not every woman does that in the West thats generalising most women do have respect for themselves, but i agree that some men do not respect women as much, they would rather objectify them and see them as meat rather than for who they are. However again i cannot say this for every man, because there are decent men everywhere. I think its the mass media that is doing this making women feel pressured to conform to what is seen as how a woman should be like. There are many pressures for women to be young, beautiful domesticated and intelligent having to be perfect! So some naive or ignorant women may feel the need to conform to ideas that showing your body is good and gets you attention from men so its seen as positive to them, some of them its just their choice. I agree that in the East men do respect women more but its more to do with religion.

we all speak from our experience and we forget that our experiences are just that - our experiences, unique for the person who is making it. specific for one individual in the given moment of time that never can be copied or repeated because everything changes and nothing stays the same.

you who think that women in the west have a wow life, that they are able to do what they want to do, that they are free and equal to men, not harassed, not sold as meat on the market,... you are wrong and you are right.

you who say that women in the west are immoral, loose and easy,... you are right and you are wrong.

how can you not see that you will find examples of everything you say, that you will find facts to validate your opinion in everything and anything - if you know where to look and if you choose to disregard what does not suit your theory.

those who say that western women are easy and immoral only have to point their fingers to prostitution, pornography, sexual industry, movie industry,... and they will have their facts written black on white. and they will be right because those things do happen. because some men really do bragg with their conquests of women, as some women bragg about all the men they slept with - as if the one who makes the highest score will win a prize in a competition.

and you will also be wrong because you will base your theory on specific, unique cases and make them the norm to validate all the rest. you can not conclude from unique to general and claim that you are right. a single example is just that - a single example. you can not take dozens or hundreds examples and say that they represent millions or hundreds of millions. in ideal cases, ideal theory, they maybe could represent the majority - but we are not living in an ideal world. we are not living in a black and white reality where you can just make one quick look and know for sure.

yes, west is making huge steps to decadence, but it is not something that is unique only to the west. it is not something that is happening to the west only. it happened to every civilization through history. after the golden age, degradation starts.

it is so sad and painful to know that because of your place of birth you are automatically thought of as such and such without even being given a chance to prove yourself first. some in the west do it and some in the east do it. but what do you have to prove - the majority is all that matters, is it not? what does it mean if an individual is different from majority, because majority is always right. right? WRONG! what is right will always be right and stay right no matter be it followed by majority or few individuals. the truth always stays the same truth.

statistics, statistics... we have counted the examples and made a statistic according to them and everyone have to be fitted into those statistic data's. there is no middle. you are this or that. and for a woman you are either a saint or a whore... and what are statistics? knowing to ask the right question to be able to get only the answers that will suit your theory. the way you ask a question makes a huge difference to the results you get in the end. it is all about knowing how to get what you want.

and according to that statistics, what am i? if we will stick to the stereotypes then for the west i am conservative and uptight, for the east i am immoral and loose. two sides of a moral spectrum - a saint and a whore. and for some people it will be enough, because they will not bother to try and find out the truth.

it is so sad to know that so many people do not care for morals, for principles, for ideals, for honesty, for truthfulness, for faithfulness,... all this what i was raised to believe in and live according to. and those who do, but have the misfortune to live among those who do not, will have hell from their lives because they will not fit in. and nowadays it is so important to fit in, is it not? because being different makes you bad. but i would rather not fit in and keep my ideals, keep my beliefs that only with the one who you truly love you can share everything, than fit in. i willingly chose my life to be hell, because i can not imagine my life without ideals and beliefs.

western women are easy - some are, immoral - some are, loose - some are, whores - some are.

it all comes back to the INDIVIDUAL! we can not judge all the people, the whole civilization, according to what some of them do - be it positive or negative - and this counts both for the ''east'' and for the ''west''.

because of SOME bloodsucking and money sucking leeches who make their professional career from going from one bar to another, from one man to another sucking their money and, what is worse, destroying their beliefs that there is such thing as love - pure, unconditional and true, that does not want anything in return but love... all will be judged the same?

After all have been said, my answer: Leave them alone; and let us mind our own business.

i don't mean to offend anyone.

my husband use to tell me, khallihum fa halhum, khallina fa halna.

Peace to everyone.

@ Ministry

wow, calm down

in the porn business women ARE treated as goods or products

i never been to US but from what i see in movies women wants to be treated like products and would consider them selfs gifts for the toughest guys or whatever....i know movies could be misleading but its a part from the truth

and thats actually a part of the Hijab reason, so girls wont be valued by her looks and gives a chance to look at the woman's personality before her body

and he didn't mean that we treat animals better, he just means that we don't use them as products as some women are being used as in the west

and the reason of mistreating animals because of poverty not cruelty people hardly support there family with food, so everything else is considered secondary in there life's, like animals rights......if people here have better life they will look at other things, and then we will be much better than Americans who cares for animals more than people and nations they conquer

and they are not only treated as products..watch that video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_l2Qqay4wE

EDIT:

and about the animals rights Zoser have a great point when he mentioned Bullfighting.....people torture bulls just to amuse the nice people....i just hope th bull could kill the matador when i accidentally see that

@Ministry

i know what u said and i said that movies could be misleading but there is a different between when Americans movies show Egypt or when they show them selfs "like for example if they show them selfs as they show Egypt then they will be cowboys" -cant explain that well in English but hope u get what i said

so there is a big part of truth in those movies

my answer is long but i wanted just to say the first line "in the porn business women ARE treated as goods or products" to prove that Saydaly "the asker" do have a point