What's the difference between these 2?

I think it quite ironic that when people complain about others "not believing" in God, there is a much bigger issue they seem to totally ignore.

1) Even IF we assume that the existence of the material universe somehow "proves" God's existence, this STILL does NOT prove that OUR CONCEPT of God is proven -- ONLY that SOME manner of a "creator" exist.

2) Just WHY does this "God" have to conform to OUR concept of God? This STILL does NOT prove that this "creator/God" even cares about us. OR that OUR understanding or concept of God is the correct one. In fact it is quite doubtful.

3) I contend further NO TWO people believe in the SAME God. This is because NO TWO people can possibly conceptualize God in the same way.

4) Heck -- look at all the various forms of Christianity in existence. All contending that THEY are the ones -- and the ONLY ones -- who actually are the "True" Christians. And not only do all these different sects of Christians have a DIFFERENT concept of God -- and adamantly tell others that the other person is WRONG --, but even those people from any given specific denomination (or brand of Christianity) MUST necessarily have DIFFERENT concepts of God from each other merely because no two people can actually think alike.

And this does not even address the issue of differing beliefs by radically differing belief systems.

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The major problems I have with "believers" is NOT that they believe, but that BECAUSE of their "beliefs" they all too often bring so much unnecessary pain and suffering into this world. They all too often want others to 'respect" their beliefs but adamantly refuse to give this same "respect" to others of differing beliefs. They all too often believe that they have the "right" to enforce their particular brand of religious code on all other people. And worse -- can never possibly entertain the idea that they might be wrong.

Believe what you want, but do NOT use this belief to hurt others. Do not use this belief to curtail justice. Do not use this belief to assume moral superiority. Do not use this belief to give you an excuse to condemn others merely because they believe differently.

Truth MUST NOT be contradictory. IF you believe in a God of LOVE, then that God MUST be a God of LOVE, and not a capricious God who would send someone to hell for trite or irrational reasons. IF you believe in a JUST God, then that God MUST be just. And what He expects of us MUST BE JUST. And we MUST be totally capable of understanding that justice.

In order to love correctly, we MUST understand truth correctly.

Truth is NOT gained by blindly following a "religious" book. All too often this merely gives people the excuse to validate all manner of bigotries and injustices. Our understanding of ANY truth MUST be internally non-contradictory. Our understanding of any truth MUST necessarily stand the test of empirical evidentiary reality. IF what we believe brings harm to another we MUST reevaluate what we believe.

What we believe MUST be ALWAYS open to doubt. Without entertaining a healthy measure of doubt, all our beliefs must then BE IN doubt.

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And the truly SCARY people out ther are those who can give a reply like this one:

"If your perception of God doesn't line up with scripture, you're not following the right God."

WOW!

The total irrationality of that statement makes me quake in fear. THESE people who can make such a statement and actually "believe" what they are saying are truly frightening.

Historically, THIS is exactly the type of person who has been capable of all manner of irrational condemnation of others. THIS is historically the kind of person who has brought untold harm and destruction into this world. THIS is the kind of person who today can opt to destroy others and not have a single clue that they are doing so.

Hi Jon,

Our perception of any reality is based on our self creating a belief about that reality.

A. An event happen.

B. A belief is generated following the event. this belief can be rational or irrational.

C. An emotion is generated following the belief, if the belief was rational the emotion would be balanced and appropriate otherwise it can be dis-functional.

(R. Ellis)

This is one of the three main theories on what psychology is funded.

But applying this to God is a different thing, if we want to really know God it must Him Self who reveals it to us, so that our perception of Him will not be corrupted and contaminated by mental misconceptions.

That's why those who worship God the way that He wants to be worshipped have also gone through the main two nights of the soul where the mind gets freed from all worldly passions.

It sort of brings together solving psychological issues and repenting of sin at the same time.

Only a pure heart can worship God in mind, body and spirit.

God Bless

Well, I believe in God, and I continue to learn about His character. I don't believe I'll ever be finished with this particular quest.

In general, if I could define reality by altering my perception, I'd be able to fly.

The God I believe in is a lot more important than what my ideas are because belief is real in spirit and soul. God is within me, I know that by what is happening in my life. God has a reason for us and that will all come out as time goes by, then one day all events fall into place and you sit back and say wow, that's what he had planned.

Isn't our perception our reality? It is impossible to perceive something outside our own perceptions. Even when we talk about having an objective point of view...or at least attempting such a thing, we are still at the focal point of perceiving...it still involves us viewing something...we are never free of our perceptions, or able to see any different reality than our own. Our reality may change but not until we perceive it changing.

We are slaves to our perceptions until we die. That is where faith comes in. ;)

For me, God is a feeling of fulfillment beyond comprehension or explanation. He is The One, the Only One.

He is actually nameless because, nothing came before Him to give Him a name.

I don't really have "ideas" about Him. He has not a face, or a body.

He IS all that is positive and good. He is all powerful, unchanging all positive energy, all of light.

He is infinite.

In Him, I can soar as high as I choose to go...Because God reigns within me.

He is love, kindness compassionate, fullness, forgiving, understanding, ultimate peace and worthy of all I am, all I can give, all my love, my everything. Because without Him, I would not 'be'. :D

I don't believe in ANY gods. As far as the perception of what a qualifying god is, I'd say anything that didn't arrive in the universe after the Big Bang, by the usual process of slow, incremental increase in complexity.

whats the difference between a reality and my perception of that reality? probably alot but there is no way to know. all we have to work with is our 5 senses but our perception of a reality is almost always different from that reality. that is especially true with God, he supercedes reality.

If I understand what you are trying to say (and I always think you have interesting questions), how do we know what God's character truly is, as opposed to what we think and want God to be?

Well, that's why I try to follow exactly what the Bible say and not what I "feel" is right or what I simply "want" to be right. I have to put my pride down and realize that the truth isn't always what I want it to be and sometimes doing the right thing is hard. What's the purpose of following a religion if it only consists of what YOU want and think it should be? A person can look and study all the religions of the world until they find one that fits as perfectly as possible with what they already believe. If someone decides that polygamy is right for them, than they will convert to Fundy-Mormanism...if someone want to pray to Mary as well as Jesus Christ, then they can convert to Catholicism.

The Bible say "There is a way that seems right to a man,

but its end is the way to death." Prov. 14:12

Well you know what they say - Perception is reality. We really have no way of discerning what is "real" reality and what is merely our perception, because everyone's perception of reality is different and our only means of measure. So how are we to determine whose perception of reality is the "correct" perception? In my opinion, it would be impossible to assert that any one person's perception of reality is "better" or "more correct" than another's. Our perceptions are our only ways of constructing reality and our perceptions are all tainted by our own predispositions and biases.