Straight from the horses mouth......?

I was never a truther but what I would call agnostic. I don't think highly of the American government, hated Bush and am not in denial about the extent American security agencies are willing to go. Quite frankly I still and probably never will hold the CIA above inside jobs in theory, they did it in other countries enough to know they're no angles. But as I've told many truthers by now even if that's100 true (that the CIA would carry out an inside job if ordered) it proofs nothing about 911 itself.

So I was agnostic for a while meaning I believed I didn't know but also that there were questions about the official story that needed answers. Still it didn't take me long to get annoyed and disgusted with the propaganda techniques and rhetorical forms employed by some prominent and notorious leaders of the truth movement. Then I discovered they told lies. A movement carrying truth in its name taking the truth very loosely and sometimes even lying? Very strange. Then it happened. I concluded the inside job pushers were liars and frauds after learning more and more lies, not mistakes misinterpretations but lies. I also understood the political corners they originated and backed of in disgust. That got me into conflict with truthers who agreed with me there was so much disinfo but insisted I should check this out or that

Well I did and that's exactly the reason why I'm no longer an agnostic but became a hardcore debunker.

The truth movement doesn't get things wrong, they deliberately lie, mislead and scam. Not the overwhelming majority of their claims is false, not most, not too much. It's every single thing they say, claim and try to push into the collective conscious. Also the degree of their lies, how far they go and all that while calling themselves "truth" movement is shocking

Norad didn't stand down. When you blow all the dust of that lie all they have is a manual of a flying simulator. Seriously, no kidding

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xjBbqRJT7Q

Towers didn't fall at free fall speed

* In every video and photo you can see the perimeter columns far outpacing the collapse.

* The building took over 12-16 seconds to completely collapse. The actual event was covered by debris so no one can say for sure. One rare video has the south tower collapsing at about 22 seconds.

* Conspiracy theorists cut their videos out when the perimeter columns hit the ground and not the building.

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

The debris was not "shipped of to China before anyone could investigate" but thoroughly examined by FBI and other experts at Staten Island

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/groundzerocleanup,...

The sad thing is it doesn't matter though that I could post hundreds of examples like that for truthers. That alone should open anyone who's on the fence eyes. Truthers however? They will just say yeah but what about this and that and such and so? It's pointless

The conspiracy mongers love use the name Orwell a lot but the most Orwellian thing I've ever seen is the group calling itself 911 "truth" movement.

For me it's above question 911 was used and abused domestically and in foreign policy but that doesn't proof 911 was an inside job. As everyone who knows me knows I don't support the wars in Iraq not Afghanistan and do consider the "war on terror" a scam. There is no contradiction between those positions.

If a car crashes in my street and I steal the drivers wallet while he's unconscious or dead am I really better than the person who would make a car crash to steal that wallet? Truthers with this inside job fetish seem to believe the fact I stole the wallet proofs I made the car crash. To take that analogy even further they derail and obstruct any investigation into my theft and crimes by insisting I made the car crash in spite of the overwhelming evidence that's simply not the case. In that light, if I was this thief, might even welcome and want to encourage these misguided folks because their actions seem very successful at keeping me off the hook.

Yes the truther and birther movement are interchangeable. EDIT On a sidenote if you had been far left enough you might have very well have recognized the nonsense earlier. I think you mean you were far left from an American perspective.

For zee ster and anyone else interested

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJy_LdHMmaM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcJ_HpFro-k&feature...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wbWepx1SAs&feature...

That someone from Denmark chooses to repeat nonsense of Steven Jones changes nothing. Sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fc4ur7JUwI

Again if anything this is painful for people appealing to the truth to sell it

Thank you Travis. You were never agressive though which can't be said about most of my former truther friends unfortuantely. I hope I can count on you to be honest too when I go astray and leave the path of reason.

People will see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. Because rubbing someone's face in their own absurd beliefs only makes them close their eyes tighter

http://www.sawyerhome.net/whatilearned.html

And I'm also reminded of the Q we met if you remember. That was actually inspired by my run inns with 911 truthers.. Weird.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AoMxT...

"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments."

-- Nietzsche

To me that says it all about 911 truth

It might very well be, but false flag operations have been used by this country in the past, only not against their own people as far as we know of. I know that I am not a Truther, but there is some compelling evidence. One of the differences with the Birther phenomenon is the fct that Obama's BC has been released, and there is a newspaper article saying the baby was born in Hawaii. Because the mother is American, her offspring would be American. There would be no reason to call from Kenya to plant an article. I know I am satisfied.

41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11

29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11 – More than 700 architects and engineers have joined call for new investigation, faulting official collapse reports

25 U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11

8 Senior Republican Administration Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11

Many well known and respected senior U.S. military officers, intelligence services and law enforcement veterans, and government officials have expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report or have made public statements that contradict the Report. For those of you who care to read about what they have to say about it go to: http://patriotsquestion911.com/

Just one nugget came from not a conspiracy theory left/right/wing/nut job but from a man who served our country, Lt. Col. Jeff Latas, U.S. Air Force (ret):

"After I did my own analysis of it, it's obvious that there's discrepancies between the two stories; between the 9/11 Commission and the flight data recorder information. And I think that's where we really need to focus a lot of our attention to get the help that we need in order to put pressure on government agencies to actually do a real investigation of 9/11. And not just from a security standpoint, but from even an aviation standpoint, like any accident investigation would actually help the aviators out by finding reasons for things happening. ...

The things that really got my attention were the amount of descent rate that you had to have at the end of the flight, of Flight 77, that would have made it practically impossible to hit the light poles."

Edit: Both John & I copied info from the internet. That's not the point. The point is that there's something foul in Denmark and plenty of people in authority who question the official story and well we should. Those towers went down demolition style. WMD "bin Laden's just not that important to me" anyone? Come on. This thing stinks to high heaven and neocons used it for all it's worth.

why do you people always tie Elvis and Lizard People and the Obama thing or all the conspirecy theories together........?

do you think that by throwing a Elvis Theory in with Solid Facts about 911 it gives you the sense that ALL of them are Discredited and Wacky if you tie it in with one that is.........?

Sorry, but just cause YOU say it ain't so don't mean it ain't so and vice versa~!

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread482002/p...

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2006/09/jones...

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread484473/p...

edit: it sounds as though you are caving in to the Pressure of the Ditto-Heads that want you to Conform and stay Dummied Down so you will feel all Warm and Cozy with your Illusion os Safety and Sanity, and the Psuedo- "All American Good Ole Boy"~!

of course that is just MY Humble Opinion~!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

I don't believe too many conspiracies, but there is something terribly wrong with 9.11. I don't even want to start with all the inconsistencies of the story and all the holes, and the blatant mistakes.

We're always chompin on the bit, the bit that says neigh, neigh, neighbours around the bend bend bend over and dont be sad sad saddler up, up up there you go nice and straight again. ????

In the sense that there is NO real evidence...yes.

I feel the same way as you in almost everything that you just said.

I do however, can't help to believe that there was more to 9/11 though for my own reasons.

The birthers have NO proof at all. There is more proof that he was born here.

I really don't even care either way though.

Touche', you've hit the nail on the head and closed the coffin with one blow.

I base my principle of the BC debacle as there's never smoke without fire, too much has been concealed from the American public and if it ever emerges all hell is going to break loose and perhaps that is why people are trying to push it under the carpet.

I prefer to discuss this issue or any other issues for that matter freely.

and its honest questions and analysis like this which gives you a star and a place in my contacts =P