Western pleasure, or western pain?

FIrst thing, just like anything other sport there are good things and bad things. There the people who will do what ever it takes to win, while other people prefer to keep it natural.

I happened to write a hugh term paper on western pleasure. So I did a lot of research for this. I'm a western pleasure rider.

The first thing to understand is that western pleasure never started like the way we think of western pleasure. Originally western pleasure was to show that a horse could be rode into town after working a long day on the ranch. Western pleasure has become a trend sport. This is how it happened. Someone was at a big show, in the western pleasure class the horse that won happened to have their head down, or because the horse was moving slower. Then other people in the class figured "If that horse won because of the slowness or the head setting then I should make my horse do that so I'll win" Its a classic example of a trend setting. Just like in the sports industry remember when the NBA started wearing tights, then a lot of basketball players started wearing tights. After a while that fashion left.

With the World Show, the trend of pleasure gets restarted, because if that horse is a world champion then I should make my horse do that so I have a better chance of winning.

There are people who want to do what ever it takes to win, but I think pleasure is the most known event where people notice the abuse. Other events have abuses as well. Keep in mind that not all pleasure riders do this to their horses. I believe that horses need to have the personality to do pleasure, in order to succeed at it. My pleasure horse is very lazy but he likes to go slow.

As far as the training goes with him, he's ridden in spurs since he's lazy, I use a fork training aid on him. We win pleasure shows all the time.

With the mistreatment's of pleasure horses, the higher the stakes then you'll find questionable training techniques.

But whats the bright side? AQHA, APHA, NSBA have joined forces to regulate western pleasure. Because with pleasure the main question is When is Enough, Enough? AQHA, APHA, NSBA are coming out with new rules for pleasure horses, asking for extended gaits, doing more drug tests. Members and trainers will meet annually to set rules for western pleasure.

I've never shown in western pleasure or been around anyone who does, so I haven't seen this. Actually I really wasn't aware of these specific things but it doesn't surprise me. I never took an interest in WP because the movements looked weird and uncomfortable. I have heard a little about the stuff they do to gaited horses. I own a TWH but I don't show him, not that I would do any of that stuff if I did show. I've been to just one WP show, and I did notice that quite a few of the horses moved around the ring with their ears pinned back like they were uncomfortable. This wasn't a high level show, so I don't know if anyone went to measures as extreme as the ones mentioned here but the horses still looked grumpy or very dull.

Hearing about stuff like this makes me not want to show at all (which I don't right now). I started thinking about showing on a college equestrian team, but I have to wonder if they would turn to abusive measure there too. I used to run speed events thinking that there would be less of the sort of things mentioned here but there still is. I guess there's abusive measures used in every discipline.

Apparently you're in a real bad area for WP.

My horse, and none of the horses at my barn who are trained for WP are trained using these methods.

Harsh bits are everywhere, in every disipline and style of riding.

As for the tails, yeah it happens, but not nearly as much as you think it does.

Things like draw reins, training forks, and tie dows are used quite often, but not the way you are describing it.... I've never seen a horse bleed from any of those things.

Number 4 is way off too.

Hanging, if you mean the way they used to break horses, they don't do that anymore. It's also calling swinging, and I don't know anyone, WP or not, who would even consider that method anymore.

6, again, i don't know why they would do that, and i don't know of anyone who would/has.

7, same as number 6.

There are idiots in every part of the horse world who will continue to give different disiplines bad reputations. But that doesn't mean that everyone else agrees with them or does what they do. Every WP horse i know is treated like a king. They don't perform when they are unhappy. And anyways, WP is all about showing the judge that your horse is the easiest, smoothest, horse to ride in the arena. Having the horse do the rollkur thing would be a huge fault in WP, the judge would really not like that horse.

Going back to #3, yes those things are used, but not used harshly. They are mostly things that are used to communicate to the horse to put it's head down, rather than in. They don't pull the head down at all, they just change the angle of the reins.

I'm not even a WP person and i'm a little offened by this, I just don't understand why you think it's so harsh.. I mean, have you ever even been to a WP show, or ridden a WP horse, or had a lesson with WP trainer? If not, then i'm not trying to be rude, but stop just assuming.....

There are abuses in all professions, from the wannabes to the world champs. It usually comes from trying to make an ok horse into a wc, or a horse that has no business in that field being forced into it. Not sure that i have ever seen # 2 or 3 with my own eyes. A good wp horse has "it" from birth, you can see a horse that is bred to wp loping around its mother in frame, not tearing off across the pasture. Draft horses are bred to pull, cow horses are bred to chase cows, TB are bred to run. The problem is when some uncaring person does not know how to nuture the nature that is there, so they use abusive gimmicks. I think knowledgeable people in every venue could come up with a list of abused in there version of the sport. I ride almost exclusively stock horses, and I can think of: jumping/rapping legs with poles, arabians and american saddlebreds/burning the inside of upper lip with lighter so that the horse will "show" to the lighter next time he sees it, hitting horses with plastic bags to get them "up" for show, TWH and ASB/ surgically setting tails and soring legs, dressage/rollkur. With dogs I have heard of ripping the hair out of their ears, and sticking match sticks up their rectum, and of course, don't forget how greyhounds are treated if they are not profitable. When humans compete, they will do inhuman things to themselves and the animals. It is very sad, but, I am glad you bring it up, because all that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing. Those of us who do NOT think anything is OK for a as long as you dont' get caught have to police the others.

Well don't stop with Rolkur and Western "Pleasure"...there is lots more shame to go around in the horse show/training world. I've heard of cutting trainers putting nail laden breast collars on and yanking on them to get a horse to move this way or that way...don't even get me started on gaited horses...including but not limited to TWH, Hackneys, Saddlebreds, Paso Finos etc. Unless a horse is lucky enough that his breeders actually paid attention and bred into him the correct conformation for the job he is expected to do and he is a gifted mover with natural gait these horse are literally tortured into moving a certain way. Personally, I'm sick of it all. I don't show, I won't show and I'm perfectly happy with my trail horses, they, at least enjoy their job.

Yes, it happens with western pleasure horses in training. It also happens with horses being trained for dressage. These are not natural movements for horses, so something abusive and unnatural has to be done to get these motions.

Here is another one to add to your list. It is the reason my husband (who is a farrier) won't shoe show horses anymore...

He has been to show barns and has been asked to 'quick' the horses (cut their hooves too short) and leave blood on the floor, before he puts their shoes on. This sores a horses feet, so their stride is shortened up and they pick their feet up. Once the shoes are on, it's almost impossible to detect that a horse has been quicked.

So, it's rare for him to accept work from western pleasure barns any more. And, when anyone tells him to do it, he closes up his truck and leaves. He never looks back.

I'm pretty sure we were not bickering about hyperflexion, but whether or not it's popular in WP.

you get abuse in plain old trail riding horses, lol. in any case, burdford answered your question brillantly in the other version, so i took the liberty of pasting it here.

"There are abuses in all professions, from the wannabes to the world champs. It usually comes from trying to make an ok horse into a wc, or a horse that has no business in that field being forced into it. Not sure that i have ever seen # 2 or 3 with my own eyes. A good wp horse has "it" from birth, you can see a horse that is bred to wp loping around its mother in frame, not tearing off across the pasture. Draft horses are bred to pull, cow horses are bred to chase cows, TB are bred to run. The problem is when some uncaring person does not know how to nuture the nature that is there, so they use abusive gimmicks.

I think knowledgeable people in every venue could come up with a list of abused in there version of the sport. I ride almost exclusively stock horses, and I can think of: jumping/rapping legs with poles, arabians and american saddlebreds/burning the inside of upper lip with lighter so that the horse will "show" to the lighter next time he sees it, hitting horses with plastic bags to get them "up" for show, TWH and ASB/ surgically setting tails and soring legs, dressage/rollkur. With dogs I have heard of ripping the hair out of their ears, and sticking match sticks up their rectum, and of course, don't forget how greyhounds are treated if they are not profitable.

When humans compete, they will do inhuman things to themselves and the animals. It is very sad, but, I am glad you bring it up, because all that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing. Those of us who do NOT think anything is OK for a as long as you dont' get caught have to police the others."

irene back in: I have seen all of these things except 2 and 3 at shows. typically a bloody mouth is pretty hard to cover up. i've also seen reining horses have their jaws wired shut, (hence the dropping bit rule). You see bad sportsmanship anywhere you go, from the person spurring their horse behind the judge's back (totally lame).

However, it is almost becoming unfashionable for these things to occur. (sadly, its not becoming unpopular because its inhumane and it hurts). I don't see very much tying around anymore, or killed tails, except in especially desperate people. So my guess is you live in an area with some very untalented, unintelligent people.

i know what your talking about does deffinately happen, some people just dont think and do stupid things... but there is the people who train regularly and really work the horse and teach it you just have to look around a little, from the sounds of it you just ended up in the wrong area i think

All of these methods I have seen being used before. But you have to realize that these abusive methods happen in ALL disciplines, not just WP.

I don't think you can just limit these occurrences to 'western pleasure' riding.

This type of abuse happens with all kinds of activities regarding horses. Regarding anything for that matter.

You get abuse with english riding.

You get abuse with horse trailering.

You get abuse with racing.

You get abuse with stabling.

You get abuse everywhere and with everything.

It is caused by ignorant individuals, and also by humans who choose to treat these animals this way.