Can MMA'ers Explain this.........?

Well said and I was thinking about this same thing recently. Unfortunately what few people do not realize is that the show is scripted. Mayhem even was forced to remove a blog post where he stated the entire season was scripted and quite often the bullies do not even really know the character they supposedly bullied. They did this to find people who were willing to get in the cage with an MMA pro since they were having a hard time actually getting real people and real bullies.

Regardless this is a great post and it will be a great read...especially once all the MMA guys jump on the band wagon and start their usual stupidity.

Traditional martial arts weren't designed to be used in a "Cage" match, of course they wouldn't work as well in a cage fight as a combination a styles put together for that purpose. Many MMA techniques are thousands of years old though, so they could actually be labled traditional.

I don't like all the bickering and agree with you one some points but I don't think you can use a "reality" TV show to prove your argument. No one involved in the show is the average guy off the street and the situations are engineered to be good TV.

I think that most people that train hard in any style are going to do much better than average when attacked in the real world. I wouldn't let the people that rip your style get you down. I think they probably haven't trained very long (if at all) or are just trying to get a rise out of people. It's just the new version of the endless "my style is better than your style" bs. I had a hapkido instructor that said arguments like this are the equivalent of dog %^$#: you're much better off walking around it than falling on the ground and rolling in it.

totally fair question...i believe tma wouldn't do well in mma, but alot of that is the rules....but we're talking stellar tmas, like the top 90%, the rest wouldn't do well anywhere, im sure you would agree and the same could be said for situations involving mma's. I know many mmas that would get hurt on the street as they forget about getting slammed on there head etc. ive been challeged on the street by fellow mma's and i don't think they realize if they fight me i would considered it a threat on my life, if they had any mental capacity left they would be left thinking "I didn't think it was that kind of fight" some of that I learned from this forum, some from mr. lee. None the less conditioning and aggression are a huge factor in a fight and i think many tmas dont see this. And i think sparring under stressful conditions as close to the real thing as possible is important mmas will generally have the upper hand here. but a good mma routine and a good tma routine at higher level will be similar. its the lower level trainers, and lesser instructors and students that fall victim to this.

an example would be fighting with a broken nose, an mma fighter will generally have more experience dealing with somethin like this, but it doesn't solve the argument.

EDIT NEVERMIND, JWBULL JUST SCREWED YOUR SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT. my f in lord man in a real fight your not just gonna choke the guys when he takes you down, its not that easy, because its a real fight these guys are professionals in chokes.

I think I might have some insight on this one Sensei.

Traditional MA has never been geared to following rules. It's all about combat situations where there are no rules, no referees, and no time limit. MMA has rules, has referees, and has time limits.

The thing that has always bugged me about some (because it's not all of them) of the MMA fans is the way they compare MMA to actual combat. There is no similarity. The tradition Martial Artist if put in a combat situation will continue to fight long after a MMA fighter would have given in. Not to mention the fact that a TMA is (if in the right mindset) prepared not only to kill in order to survive in a combat situation, but also willing to die in the attempt. No MMA'er I've talked with has this mindset.

Of course we must also bear in mind that anyone at any given time can be beaten. Myself included. In fact that has been proved to me a couple of times, but I've always "made it home" too.

LOL. Your not going to get any fan boys to answer this question.

You know darn well that the real MMA practitioners don't think that way. We don't care about style vs style, we care about training methods.

You can say that the rules restrict a fighter. If this is true then taking the rules away from a fighter makes them more dangerous. If one is true then both have to be true.

Do these arts teach you are talking about teaches against a fully resisting opponent? If they do then they should be able to step in to an amateur match and be able to hold there own. I did...and I did not train quite fully resisting

Edit: Why do I have two thumbs up and Callsignfuzzy have two down. I said the same thing only I made it more simple. His answer is 10 times better than mine.

Edit: Scandal, you said "So my point is that given a handicap, some untrained people can do well against a grappler if they have strength and mental fortitude."

That is true of EVERYTHING. No one is unbeatable and some one with strength and mental fortitude can over come almost everything in the right situations. Mothers have lifted cars off of their children before and even killed bears. If you screw with some one who has no training and you are the most complete fighter in the world but you endanger their family, I'd put my money on maternal and paternal instincts almost every time.

I've been in some fights, I've lived on the streets in the bad part of town (the cops don't ticket for camping in city limits there), I've take martial arts most of my life and I can tell you if I get into another fight like I used to get into, I am taking it to the ground.

You also talked about doing what ever it takes to get home. THAT IS THE POINT OF GRAPPLING. The first thing you learn in pretty much any grappling art is how to disengage and get up. When you train ground and clinch control you know how to get out and so does your partner, that is why you need the control, it also helps you escape. A lot of times street fights can start with some one just blindsiding you and tackling you. Just standing up puts you in to worst positions and more open for attacks. I don’t care if only .01% of street fights go to the ground or if 99.9%, people need to train for it.

Do I think a novice grappler could beat a REAL karateka in street fight, LOL, no. I put in another answer that I did not like my chances against some of the regulars on here who have never done MMA. I know there are some on here that would still beat me to a pulp because of their training for years.

If you are saying that a novice striker has a better chance against an untrained, strong and mentally fortified person than a grappler, I disagree. I think they are called novices for a reason. Neither will do well.

EDIT***************************************************************

Jim G, you said "Not to mention the fact that a TMA is (if in the right mindset) prepared not only to kill in order to survive in a combat situation, but also willing to die in the attempt. No MMA'er I've talked with has this mindset."

I actually clarified this point earlier when I talked about Maternal and Paternal instincts. I guarantee if some one (anyone) tried or did hurt my son...I'd kill them. I actually take offense to your comment because you are stating that we are different not because of our training, you are claiming that we are different people that do not cherish out lives and lives of loved ones. I think either you need to find real mma people to talk to so you get over that appalling ignorance or learn form your mistake right here, right now.

Callsign explained what you needed to know sensei. Well done callsign. Magnificent knowledge.

Edit: There are several number of boxers and maybe a few mixed martial artist who have died doing sport. Especially in boxing. So Endo, you are wrong on the way you put your statement. Whether or not the mma fighter has the mindset of dying, he certainly and I mean certainly has the mindset to take some hell of a physical punishment. And not to say that no traditional martial artist actually came to a point where they phyically exchanged blows in their sparring. One example of that is wing chun and I believe majority of other Kung fu methods have very light to no sparring at all. So Endo, you have to prove your point which you haven't because as far as I'm concerned, mma guys have a much better mental mindset. And it also depends on what kind of traditional because if your talking about the very old versions especially when the samurai's were involved, then there is no such thing anymore in this world. Things like ninja and all those other stuff that represent traditional arts have faded away now. And mma is the new term of martial arts. And real martial whether or not people agree. Only ignorant's would disagree on that.

I'm curious as to where do mma people think their ground techniques came from? Where did the escapes or submissions come from? They all came from a TMA.

Also, I wonder why I don't see guy routinely getting choked out when they go for a double leg take down. They hang their hear asking to be choked.

I can't speak for any other dojo, but we teach that any choke that you can do on the ground you can also do standing.

Edit:

Clowns you already know how it is on yahoo answers some of us have a following that will thumbs down us no matter how we answer. They are called haters..lol

Cassign we all know those are the fan boys and beginners or those that were just plain lied to that make those comments. We know that real mma people respect all or most martial arts. Like our dojo is open. It is a rec center. We get people all of the time that want to say or prove that what we do doesn't work. Recently, there were some want to ba mma guys that came in. They wanted us to teach them mma. We don't teach it. We teach shorin ryu or jujitsu. We have instructors qualified to teach judo and tkd as well, but our style for our dojo is shorin ryu and jujitsu. Then after a while they began to criticize our martial arts. We ignored them. Then they challenged my 60+ year old instructor. They went on to say how mma was so much better. After a lot of nudging my instructor finally said okay, but not under your mma rules(no rules). He stated the he wasn't mma nor does he fight under those rules. They guy said fine. The sparring match began. My instructor hit him in the groins. He was hurt but not too bad. He want to go again, but said no groin strikes. My instructor agreed...lol Then my instructor used a small joint manipulation on him when he tried to punch. The guy was on his tip toes. He said wait you can't do that. My instructor agreed not to do that either. Then they guy went for a double leg take down. Then my instructor choked him out. The guy said that's not fair. My instructor again explained to him that I'm not mma. I do karate. Then I fought under your rules and you still lost. What is the problem. The guy made a scene he tried several other attacks only to get his ego further hurt. He made a huge scene and mouthed off about how our traditional karate was garbage and that he was going to a place for some real training....lol They other guys that was with him said will you teach us. We want to learn what you are teaching. One of the guys continue to train ant the mma place too, but he has dream of fighting for money. The guy that wanted to learn self defense doesn't train with the mma guys anymore. The big mouth idiot never came back.

Edit 2:

I with scandal and the point sparring. It is nothing more than a game of tag. I personally have little or no use for it. However, we do have because the younger and a few older students want to win trophies. But we teach them their is a difference in point sparring a true martial arts and self defense. This is for tournaments and this is for life or death.

1. In Bully beatdown they are wearing Pads- the object is not to finish your opponent only to make them lose all thier money- If someone walks into the "cage" Flattens the bully in 10 seconds and breaks his jaw- MTV will not be happy.

2. We have no idea what the fighters are told or asked to do- like the Seth/Kimbo fight if they are told to do something different to seem to give the bully the chance (Take a look at Pros vs Joes for the same thing)

3. The Problem with traditional MMA is there is so much more- take the Strikeforce event this weekend. Soko is world class in Judo but did not have the skills to finish the fight on the ground. You take a "traditional" artist out of his element and he will be in trouble if he has not cross-trained a good bit ( Look at GSP, he started in Karate- but has worked like a dog on his wrestling- now he is a force in both areas)

LOL, do you consider Royce Gracie to be a TMA? Because he was in a cage and there were no rules and he never lost a fight under the old ufc rules. Sure you were fined 1000 dollars and had to give it to your opponent if you had groin strikes, eye gouges, fish hooking or biting, but that didn't stop royce from kneeing people in the balls, keith hackney from punching joe son in the balls repeatedly, or gerard gerdeou from biting royce and eye gouging him. Royce still won the tournaments.

Also, are you saying that these bullies are trained in traditional martial arts?

callsignfuzzy, you showing the videos only supported what he said because they werent combining martial arts, they were traditionally practicing only one martial art. but i agree that it is training that will help you win.